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F1
December 9th, 2001, 02:06 PM
SMR started like any other but little did we know what lay ahead. East of Royse City at a stop sign while re-grouping we noticed that Mike (sweeper) was missing, doubled back to find Mike with cops and a few trucks stopped, turned out that a truck cut Mike and the newbie on the 250 ninja dangerously and at the stop sign Mike flipped his rear view mirror, the guy knocked Mike (still on the bike) over and started punching his helmet breaking the visor, luckily no one was hurt bad, Mike did not throw the first punch (make sure you dont drop the charges against the %$#@%).

After the lecture from the cops some of us continued to head east (some headed home), here while braking to let the newbie catch up, Marty lost the front end and crashed (he chunked his helmet in frustration and broke the visor). After some repairs with magic glue to the clutch cover and helmet, decided to continue.

Soon Marty found out that he could not down shift, we stopped and decided it was enough for a days ride and turned to head back, 2 women (approaching senior citizenship) in a car almost stopped in the middle of the road, tried to turn right then decided they actually wanted to go left, it was enough to cause David bump the side of their car and go down, luckily he had started braking early and damage was minimum.

We hit Hwy 30 and made it home without further events. Good news is that nobody got hurt serious, just the bikes got bruised.

Faisal ZX-6R :(

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Faisal ]

yellowducati900ss
December 9th, 2001, 03:33 PM
Actually, besides the bike, there are a few bruises on my face, too. http://www.plauder-smilies.de/punch.gif I have a black eye that you can all see at the meeting on Tuesday.

I'll write up the whole story in a couple minutes.

jelliott25
December 9th, 2001, 04:00 PM
Oh geez...I have relatives in Royse City....I hope that wasn't one of them. ;)

yellowducati900ss
December 9th, 2001, 04:23 PM
So here's the deal. I was riding sweeper and the guy on the Huricane 1000 was riding Pace Rider in front of the new rider on the 250. Yes, this is the same guy who challenged a truck a couple weeks ago to a game of chicken and almost lost... Marty, Fasial, and I don't think we should let him ride with us anymore but more on that as this goes on.

We had just gotten off of a gas stop from our ride out on the slab. We started going down a two laner with twisties. Due to us using a Pace rider to slow up the 250, many of the group had gotten ahead and passed a group of 2 or three cars.

I don't know any circumstances except the one about the guy on the 250 but I'm sure someone or other passed the cars on a double-yellow line. Apparently this pissed off two of the drivers. I was hanging way back because I didn't want to feel like I was pushing the kid but I could tell from back there he was going to pass on a solid line.

As he had comitted to his pass, I saw a car coming around the corner and I thought, "Oh Sh@t kid, get around and get in". In the mean time, the people in the trucks were crowding him and kind of pushing him into the on-coming lane! Basically he made a very bad pass but they tried to kill him for that mistake!

He managed to swing back just in time and keep going but then the guy with a Red F-150 kept swerving in front of me. I was pissed off because they could have killed him and now they were playing with my life. This is when I lost my head a bit. If I was alone it would have been ok to do this but as the last person in the group I should have not done this. In a passing zone I made my pass quickly. I went past real close to him and smacked his mirror kind-a sort-a on purpose (learned that trick from a certain Canadian whom I won't name).

Right after I did it, I realized that it was really the wrong thing to do because I knew the group would wait for me at the next stop sign and that the guy in the truck would be pissed off. I was not really worried about anyone but the guy on the 250. I was afraid that if the guy in the truck was going to do something stupid, that the group would need to get away from him. I was worried that if that happened, the guy on the 250 may be pushed into a "chase" scenario. I didn't want to get him killed so I started looking for a place where I could peel off from the group and take this guy in the truck with me. Then he would never catch me but he also wouldn't be a danger to the rest of the group.

Unfortunately, I never got the chance. About two miles later, I turn a corner and the group is waiting for me at a corner. Now my plan was to let them go left and I would stall the guy for a bit and take off right. Once again that would have gotten him off of our *** and allowed me to lose him without having to worry about anyone else.

The group started pulling out as he pulled up next to me. They didn't realize any of this was going on. We were in a verbal altercation and when I was about to take off, he managed to open his door into my bike and push me over. He then proceeded to hit me in the helmet.

The first punch was a lucky one (for him). He broke my visor and grazed my eye (you will see my black eye on Tues., I am sure). Other than that, he was just beating the crap out of my helmet. I wasn't really getting hurt and three other cars had stopped so I figured it would end soon. I was really calm through the whole thing because I was not getting hurt in the slightest. I realized that I did not want to even throw a punch because then I would get it for assault along with him. There were about 6 people there and I was the only one that would have been on my side when the cops show up. In fact, I was worried about how my bike was going to be all f'ed up more than I was worried about being hurt.

While circling, I noticed his 14 yr. old son pull out a shovel from the back of the truck. That was the only time I was really worried but the kid's mom made him put it back. The guy threw about 6 - 8 punches that landed squarely on my helmet and several that I pushed aside. Not the brightest thing I have seen out of someone. punching a helmet with bare fists.

Once things calmed down a little, he just started swearing at me and the group, calling us a bunch of bad names and telling me my bike is one of those "queer" bikes, not a real one, etc. In the mean time, his wife kept screaming at me that they had my license plate number and "the cops were on their way". The whole time I was thinking, "Great! Thanks for calling them so I can have this guy charged with Assault".

Eventually things calmed down enough that I could pick up my bike and still keep an eye on him. Then the cops showed up and I finally was able to take off my helmet.

A sheriff of Hunt Country took their side of the story and then came to talk to me. I gave him the story above, leaving out nothing. I was not going to omit that I had pushed his mirror but I did tell him the circumstance about it being a new rider who made a mistake and that they had almost killed the guy. I figured I would get a reckless driving ticket for it but I wanted to make sure I nailed the bastard for Assault.

Eventually Fasial showed up and then the rest of the group. We got a lecture from the Sheriff and he let us all go (no tickets for me). He asked me if I wanted to press charges and I replied, "Absolutely". I filled out the report and asked what happens now. Basically the Sheriff will take the report to the Detective who will look it over and should issue a warrant for the guy's arrest in about 10 days.

I figure I will contact a Civil Attorney tomorrow to see what my options are. I have about $1000 of damage if you add up the bike and helmet (surface damage on the bike but it is damage none-the-less).

Either way, I'm going to prosecute to the best of my ability.

Hats off to the Hunt County Sheriff. I know he has his job to do and he was very professional and non-judgemental about the fact that we were riding sportbikes. I spoke to him truthfully and calmly and he treated me with respect as I treated him. He gave us the obligatory speech about not passing on double yellows but that's his job so I don't fault him for that in the least.

Side Note:

Apparently after that incident, the guy on the 250 made another really bad pass. He passed a guy towing a bale of hay in a very bad time. The guy was trying to turn left! Fasial said there were locked up brakes (not sure if it was the bike or the truck) and it was an ugly site. I don't think we need that guy riding with us again.

I don't blame him directly for the problems I had today but he bears partial responsibility. More importantly, he has made three very bad mistakes and he isn't learning or listening to us.

The first was when Marty was sweeping a couple weeks ago and the guy crossed the center line and almost took out a truck. Marty talked to him after that. The Second and Third were today when he scared the crap out of me and then again out of Fasial.

We told him several times today not to push it, but he is not listening. We even put him behind the Pace rider for a second week in a row and it didn't help.

I don't know if I want to ride with him again.

yellowducati900ss
December 9th, 2001, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elliott P.:
Oh geez...I have relatives in Royse City....I hope that wasn't one of them. ;)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does one of them drive a Red Ford F-150 with license plate WA2-893?

Pod
December 9th, 2001, 05:12 PM
WTF? Mike, thanks for the thorough write-up. The TSBA needs to SERIOUSLY re-think it's position on letting new riders on the SMRs.
I'm not saying this wouldn't happen with me there. Hell- I probably would have been the one in the fight, with my smart mouth.
Is it fair to ban newbies from SMRs? No, of course not. But of the last several wrecks I've heard about from my DFW boyz, they've mostly been newbies.
I say have ONE *very* slow ride a month in which everyone is invited to. Pick and choose members to be invited back after that ride.
You guys need to get a grip on the situation up there. I'm pointing fingers because I've got a lot of friends up in Big D that I love and don't wanna lose them to a FNG's inexperience.
Pod

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Pod ]

F1
December 9th, 2001, 05:19 PM
I think that the 250 guy is waay too young and underpowered/unexperienced to ride on a regular SMR. After Marty's crash I got behind him to keep an eye out, what I figured was that when the bikes ahead of him dissapeared around a corner, he would start to panic (the feeling of being left behind) and there came the mistakes!(trying to pass at the wrong time at the wrong place) luckily we successfully saved him from hurting himself during a few past SMR's (and this one) but I agree with Mike that he should not ride SMR's for some time untill he gets some experience.

It's like letting your 14 year old son ride on an SMR (with Marty leading), I think we should explain this to him when he shows up next time.

Faisal ZX-6R

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Faisal ]

DaJacker
December 9th, 2001, 05:21 PM
I for one will not ride with this person again. Mike is absolutly right, he's just not getting it.We have talked to him many times, in fact my first encounter with him I stopped the ride to talk to him about crossing the line so blantenly and damb near getting killed. Now my little spill is directly my fault, although I cant help thinking if he wasnt with us I wouldnt have been slowing down to go look for him in the ditch, and these were my thoughts as I slowed to turn. To be honest, I was getting pissed cause I just knew he had done something, and sure enough he did, damb near got taken out by a hay bail. Now in the 2 times I have riden with him I can count at least 4 incidents that quit honestly could have caused serious injury or death, 1. a few weks ago when he decided to play chicken with a truck on the wrong side of the road, 2. when he damb near rear-ended ME at about 35 or 40, 3. passing in a no passing zone and nearly causing a wreck(which later insued the fight with Mike and the hillbilly redneck dirt farmer), and 4.trying to take on a 2 ton round hay bail, this all that I know of. Where do we as a group draw the line, my personal feelings I have stated, I wont ride with him again. It may sound like Im bashin him here but Im just stating the facts, most of you guys know me, hardly do i ever ***** here, but this has really got my panties in a wad! (soap box removed)

F1
December 9th, 2001, 05:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by martys748:
2. when he damb near rear-ended ME at about 35 or 40, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember that one, when I made the u turn back at Windom and we stopped, you slowed down as you saw us on the other side of the road and the 250 (behind you) fixated on us and barely missed you.

Again its not the young guys fault, he's just too young!

Faisal ZX-6R

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Faisal ]

Dave Whitson
December 9th, 2001, 05:51 PM
Man...I miss all the fun :(

What's the deal with Ducatis and SMR's?

That sucks that this newbie can't get a grip on his riding, and nobody wants to ride with him anymore. What's the deal? Is it peer pressure, ego, inexperience or all of the above?
Good thing he dosen't have an R1 (yet)

yellowducati900ss
December 9th, 2001, 07:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave W.:
That sucks that this newbie can't get a grip on his riding, and nobody wants to ride with him anymore. What's the deal? Is it peer pressure, ego, inexperience or all of the above?
Good thing he dosen't have an R1 (yet)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand someone making mistakes like the FIRST one where he played chicken with the truck. But you can try to explain to someone only so much. If they don't want to listen, all you can do is remove the stimulus.

I have absolutely no problem asking him to come out for a SLOW SMR once a month (This time S stands for Saturday. Along with it we could go to a big parking lot somewhere and do the practice drills from the Motorcycle Safety Class. We could preach that this is not a substitute for it but it is something to help enhance things they could learn there.

If someone who has a place to host pictures can send me their email, I will get some of the pictures of my face and bike out to you to post to this BBS.

-M

Dave Whitson
December 9th, 2001, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yellowducati900ssMike:

If someone who has a place to host pictures can send me their email
-M<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Send em to me... slugger! :D

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Dave W. ]

yellowducati900ss
December 9th, 2001, 08:07 PM
I'll send 'em to you Dave but you can also view them at this URL. Once you get there, click on "Photo's" on the left hand side, then the "Road Rage" albumn.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thebigtrip/

P.S. I was not all that good looking in the first place... :D

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: yellowducati900ssMike ]

DaJacker
December 9th, 2001, 08:30 PM
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_2658141/Road+Rage/__tn_12-9+Eye+2.jpg?bc4FCF8ANrdIeiLJ
Hey Poppie!!

yellowducati900ss
December 9th, 2001, 08:33 PM
Pic didn't come through Marty. ;) &lt;- That's me with a busted eye (ha ha).

jelliott25
December 9th, 2001, 08:34 PM
No..no relatives with F150's.....&lt;whew&gt;

Sounds like a very un-fun SMR. Lemme just say this, once I a get a bike (and actually graduate to newbie status) I would have no problem with being restricted to a once a month "slow" SMR until such time that I can prove (to both myself and to the TSBA) that I can handle the real deal. No problem.

I have to say, though, that the sight of some guy wailing away on a motorcycle helmet would have been a sight indeed. Just goes to show that the person was neither thinking or behaving in a rational manner.

DaJacker
December 9th, 2001, 08:34 PM
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_2658141/Road+Rage/12-9+Eye+5.jpg?bcoJCF8ACIT6nVgM
Perfect picture for a milk carton!

Dave Whitson
December 9th, 2001, 08:41 PM
You should see what the other guy looks like smile.gif smile.gif
http://wsphotofews.excite.com/005/MF/nA/EO/hF56542.jpg
http://wsphotofews.excite.com/004/us/dv/WM/hH69051.jpg http://wsphotofews.excite.com/012/Er/ld/We/hE50475.jpg

Damage to the bike http://wsphotofews.excite.com/013/8s/Gb/4q/hF51762.jpg http://wsphotofews.excite.com/008/z0/Ea/Iz/hM39731.jpg

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: FZR Dave ]

Inlaw1
December 9th, 2001, 08:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by martys748:
Where do we as a group draw the line<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok guys, please don't take this as "there goes Stoops telling us what to do again". I'm speaking from 12 years experience with TSBA and I hope you can get something from my experience. And I generally say things straight up as I'm not the best at expressing myself the best way I could all the time using this medium. I agree with JoPod, you guys have to get a grip on things up there. Sorry Mike, I understand your feelings and why you did what you did. However that was totally out of line, especially on a club ride. (You should of stayed behind him until the next stop, pulled out the Smith & Wesson and capped his ***. Ok, strike that last sentence as I don't really mean that. :rolleyes: )

Where do you draw the line? Both the first and second incidents with this 250 rider should have been dealt with harshly. Not some nicety namby pamby talk. Use forceful constructive criticism, try and make him believe you are seriously concerned about his behavior and his safety (not that you didn't). You've seen his behaviour before and you've seen the results. Put the fear of God into riders that exhibit riding traits this guy has. The kind fear your father put into you when you were younger and you f**cked up. If he doesn't like it, he'll leave on his own and your problem is over. The second time you don't even have to be constructive, and tell him if there is a third time he's out'a here! That's it, your not going to be around to pick up the pieces.

TSBA would like to help out new riders, and we do all the time. There are several in the SA group that will attest their personal skills improved immensely after riding with us. As there are members in each chapter that could. But there are some riders you can lead to water but can't make them drink. Your not going to be able to help all those that come to you, and you don't need to feel bad about diss'in those that don't listen. Those that don't listen you need to weed out quickly. We've chased off several people, and while we never feel good about that when it happens, we know in the long run it's better for the group.

In the past TSBA has been a riding club and has not been about quantity of membership, but quality of the rider. We are a riding club, maybe you guys need to decide if your priority is a social group, or a riding group. Here in SA, Austin and Killeen it's a tight knit riding group with some outside social aspects thrown in. But the emphasis is on riding and including riders that can ride. Not a social group that trys to include everyone (I'm not saying that's what you guys do) and gets together to ride. We were recently accused of being elitist on another board. Well they're right in some ways.

I'm sorry if I am stepping on yuse guys toes. I really am just concerned about you guys. I hate hearing this stuff, and I know you guys have got to be past tired of it happening. Your club is not just your club, it's the club of every TSBA member state wide. What you do eventually can reflect on us all. And JoJo is right, you've got to get a handle on this. Maybe it's time to start being a little more elitist. (?)

[ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Gary Stoops ]

DaJacker
December 9th, 2001, 08:46 PM
heres some of my 30 mph power slid
http://home.attbi.com/~martys748/wsb/media/3863/site1.jpg

still more
http://home.attbi.com/~martys748/wsb/media/3863/site1002.jpg

F1
December 9th, 2001, 11:40 PM
Well lets backtrack a minute, the 250 guy DID NOT crash! although he had some very close calls every time he rode with us so as a result he should not ride on future SMR's until he grows up.

Now coming back to todays events, experienced riders behind and ahead of him were dropping like flies:

Case 1,

Mike flips a guy on the go, then stops right next to him a mile up the road! not smart but unavoidable as the stop sign came up.

Case 2,

Marty decides to brake hard on loose gravel, not smart either but avoidable.

Case 3,

David broadsides a couple of old women that are lost and going the same direction we are, they were very slow and did not use turn signals, Marty narrowly misses them.

If for a minute we take the 250 guy out of the equation there is no guarantee that the outcome would have been different, although it sure points that way.

In case 1 the F-150 dude got an attack of road rage when Marty, John, David n myself whizzed by him doing 100++, he targetted the 250 guy and Mike became the victim (**** stop sign right up the road).

Case 2 was frustrating to an experienced rider as shown by helmet chunking and cussing for damaging the clutch, fairing and helmet.

Case 3, by this time everyone should have been very cautious due to previous events but we were still enjoying sweepers!

All in all a very sad SMR indeed.

Faisal ZX-6R

DaJacker
December 10th, 2001, 09:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Stoops:
Sorry Mike, I understand your feelings and why you did what you did. However that was totally out of line, especially on a club ride]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now go out to the back yard and get me a switch, and you better not bring back a small one!!!
:D

yellowducati900ss
December 10th, 2001, 09:16 AM
Believe me, I'm the first one who will admit I shouldn't have done that. I even volunteered that to the sheriff. If I would have gotten a reckless driving ticket out of it I would have deserved it.

I don't think we need to do a caning. My back and neck are sore enough as it is. If feels like I went waterskiing yesterday after not doing that for 5 years. I know this because I had done that before and it is bad news. It is all just stiffness, though, nothing permanent. *meow*

Hood Ornament
December 10th, 2001, 09:23 AM
Faisal, I think Gary is right. While the other incidents aren't directly related to this guy, the fact is he keeps making mistakes that could easily get him killed or at the very least seriously injured not to mention taking someone else with him. From reading the ride reports Marty, and Mike's incidents seem related to the fact that they were concentrating on what the 250 rider was doing rather then concentrating on riding. Obviously the 2 blue hairs in the car were unrelated.

Gary is right on the money when he says this club shouldn't be about quantity. I think one of the first things we should do is stop publishing where and when we leave for an SMR on the web page. I think that membership should be by invitation only ( I don't think we need to go so far as to vote for the perspective member) and the person that makes the invitation should be responsible to the new perspective member, i.e. mentoring him if needed, or at the very least insuring that person understands how things are done on a ride. SMR's should alos be for members and invited guests only, and once again the member inviting the guest should be responsible. As for those people that want to come out and ride with us that don't know a member, we could have them first come to one of the monthly meetings so we can at least find out a little about their riding experience and get an idea of the type of person they are. Then have them come out on a specific newbie type SMR that is seperate from a regular SMR. From there we can evaluate the person and decide if we want them to join or not. If all this comes across as elitist, then so be it, I can live with that appearance

I have to say that we have been VERY lucky. Not a single rider in the DFW chapter has been killed. If we don't get a handle on this thing that luck is going to change.

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: Hood Ornament- Albert to the tardos ]

Pod
December 10th, 2001, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If we don't get a handle on this thing that luck is going to change.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the perspective, Albie.
Hey look-- the operative word in this entire thread has been "luck." We are putting WAY too much emphasis on the stars aligning properly the morning before the SMR. It's time to have RULES REGULATIONS and RESTRICTIONS on the who/what/when/where of the SMRs.
Pod

F1
December 10th, 2001, 10:00 AM
Great ideas Albie, lets make these official at tomorrow's meeting. Dont get the impression that I was trying to side up with the 250 kid, was merely looking at the overall picture with a different hat on!

Faisal ZX-6R

john.sblendorio
December 10th, 2001, 12:05 PM
Mike,
First sorry to hear about the incident. As far as your case, by pressing charges on this guy he will have class b and/or c misdemeanors against the state. (him vs. state) He can still press charges against you as well. (you vs. State) Either way you need to file a civil case against him to sue for damages. (you vs. him) Good luck.

Secondly, we almost had a similar occurance last week were a couple of guys in a truck put their blinkers on just as we were pulling out to try to scare us. For some reason they were going the same direction at a few stops and the group had to overtake them three times. Being a rider myself, I would probably liked to see everyone get on it, but I can see it pissing off "joe-bob redneck".

Maybe leaving earlier would enable us to avoid more driver during the trip. It will certainly deter the riders not committed to particpating on future SMR's.

Lastly, I certainly applaude your concern for new riders, but I believe we are not there to babysit. Whoever is the leader of the day should be able to get a quick concenses from 1-2 other senior members of the day and have the ability to ask someone to take a hike after being talked once. This activity is way too risky to begin with let alone someone else adding to the problem.

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: Ducati_John ]

yellowducati900ss
December 10th, 2001, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ducati_John:
He can still press charges against you as well. (you vs. State) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He can do that all he wants. The only thing illegal I did was flip his mirror. I realized when it was happening that I had no witnesses and if I so much as busted his lip I would get an assault charge against me as well. I did nothing but fend off his punches. That sounds really stupid but I had a helmet on and a bunch of leathers so it really didn't hurt. He barely clipped my eye and it never really swelled up but you know how eyes are, they just get touched and they go black.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Either way you need to file a civil case against him to sue for damages. (you vs. him) Good luck.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Know any good lawyers for a civil suit? I have been looking around online and I'm not sure yet who to go with.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Lastly, I certainly applaude your concern for new riders, but I believe we are not there to babysit. Whoever is the leader of the day should be able to get a quick concenses from 1-2 other senior members of the day and have the ability to ask someone to take a hike after being talked once. This activity is way too risky to begin with let alone someone else adding to the problem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I concur wholeheartedly. I took one for the team, I'm not taking another one unless the person is worth it.

If I had wanted my bike trashed and a black eye I could have ridden behind Fasial without a face shield! tongue.gif :D

DAluminum
December 10th, 2001, 03:30 PM
Civil Court will only get you a judgement. The likelihood of some redneck giving you money for your damamages (even with a court-ordered judgement) 0.05%.
You have to sue him in the county where he lives or works. Likelihood of a rural jury siding with a "Ninja bike?" 0.000000007%.
:)
No attorney can make him pay, even if you do win.
Sorry, bro, but before you waste any money with an attorney I'd consider chalking this one up to experience.

Jeff Roberts
December 10th, 2001, 04:14 PM
I know zero about law but I know what happened to me. Twenty years ago I sued a guy for $500 bucks he owed me over a sale gone bad, I’ll save the details. Anyway, I paid a filing fee ($25?), lost a day’s wages since I was paid hourly at that point in my life, went to court, we each presented our arguments in front of a judge (small claims – no lawyers) and I won. I promptly walked out of the court-room and learned that there was almost nothing (within reason) I could do to get my hard won $500.

It gets complicated, I had some of his money, he had my junker car etc. and it was time to make some decisions about cutting my losses or continuing.

Shortly thereafter, since he lived with his parents I was told I could put a lien on his parent’s property for another $25. If or when they sold their property a title search would have been performed and the judgement would had to have been cleared before they could sell their property. I might be maybe 50 or 60 years old when that happened.

My suggestion would be to rehearse the WHOLE process on paper before you give up any real money to get this going. I wanted to mention this to you yesterday but it wasn’t the time or the place.

Good luck with whatever you decide….

jr

DaJacker
December 10th, 2001, 04:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DAluminum:
I'd consider chalking this one up to experience.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*%@! that, at least try to sue him in small claims court, where a $25 filing fee wil at least bring his dirt farming *** to court, then if he no shows you get the judgment, and if he still dosent pay, file for a lien on his propperty, you still may not get anything but the hell and heart ach he will have to remove the lien would be worth it to me, "chalk it up to experience" what does this tell Jo-Bob red neck dirt farmer? that its open season on bikers and he can get away with it. This goat ropper needs to understand that he is responceable for his actions, the only civil way to do this through the legal system, what there is of it. Just too let it go would be a step in the wrong direction. A Benjimin Franklin says he has a record already, and I bet he drinks and drives too, probably some crap like "Shaffer" or "Pearl" :mad:

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: martys748 ]

Pod
December 10th, 2001, 06:51 PM
Nah-- I'd chalk it up man. You do what you feel is fair and just. I'm not trying to tell you what you should do, it's just not what I would do. You are talking massive headache and unless the guy owns *real* property (boats and cars don't count) you won't ever see a dime. And even if he does, if he never sells it then you've wasted time and more $.
If you do decide to go to small claims, make 100% sure you get a judge hearing, since the guy probably has a record in town.
Don't get me wrong, man. I want this F-er lynched. I just know that when you go to court the person with the least to lose always wins in the end...

john.sblendorio
December 10th, 2001, 06:59 PM
F(*& that, if someone knocked my bike over on purpose, I am getting payed cash or hide take your pick. I would rather have the cash, but in the end it does not matter to me.

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: Ducati_John ]

Inlaw1
December 10th, 2001, 07:13 PM
I'd have to be on the side of sue the guy. It's only a $25 fee. And if you win you can put the lien on him. It's true that chances are you may not see anything from it, but I'm tired of people not being held accountable for their actions. And the apathy in this country to not even try and hold them accountable. "It's too much of a hassle....You'll never see a thing..." is just the apathy that lets guys like this Bubba get away with crap like this.

You owe it to motorcyclists, society and humanity to hold this guy accountable! :D

I worked for a guy last year that still owes me $3800 in back pay for the month of Dec. I'm suing him without any expectation of ever seeing a dime (the company is belly up and he's so far in debt I'm way down on the list). It's the principle of the thing. I will at least have a civil judgment against him that'll reflect on his credit report and that's something.

F1
December 10th, 2001, 07:14 PM
Well, let me set up a scenario.

I am jack the f''n redneck farmer and I am on my way back home after "church", all I see is the grill and some respite from Jill (jack the f--n farmers wife and joe, jack the f88n farmers son), all of a sudden the road that used to be deserted is swarming with strange 2 wheelers with people manning them in even stranger colors and they break all traffic regulations, (how dare they distract me from thinking bout how I am gonna pay the taxes on the farm, gee, I'm gonna whop their ***) just then a strange (lookin queer in my mind) !@@#$%$ flips my mirror!! thats assault on my family,, **** I'm gonna show this #)*&^#$ the can (whop ***), what will Jill think if I dont.

Scenario over!

Faisal ZX-6R

Inlaw1
December 10th, 2001, 07:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:
Scenario over!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have a very valid point. But you left out one very important part of this particular scenario. The guy tried to do bodily harm by deliberately driving at said motorcyclists. Whether he thought they were dangerous, queer or whatever, he had no right to make those maneuvers.

And as Mike has acknowledged, he had no right to act the way he did either. He should of gotten the guys plate number and called the Sheriff and filed a complaint, just like the guy in the truck should of done against Mike.

This guys actions were dangerous. First he tried to run someone off the road, which can be construed as assault with intent to cause bodily harm (which is probably aggravated assault). Second, when he pulled up next to Mike and then deliberately knocked him off the bike and was then pummeling him, the third party (his son) pulled that shovel out of the truck, I may have been compelled to draw my licensed handgun on the both of them at that point.

Someone that is so irrational to try and cause bodily harm by deliberately running another off the road, and then attack them physically is irrational enough to do great bodily harm, I.E. get in the truck and run them over or take that shovel and break bones or worse. That opens a very ugly legal door to the use of deadly force.

Mike was wrong, but your church going Bubba was wrong first and then escalated his wrong. He broke penal laws from the beginning, and you guys were just breaking regulatory laws. Big, big difference. You did nothing to threaten him, he threatened you from the beginning.

This guy needs to be held accountable if at all possible.

Weave
December 10th, 2001, 07:54 PM
Writing down the pros and cons of legal action sounds like a good idea. Right now you're undoubtedly pissed, and want a bit of revenge. That's understandable. But have yourself a go/no go criteria if the legal proceedings appear to by spiraling out of control.

Many of us grew up in small, rural towns. Some of these good-old-boys live for the fight. And Faisal's commentary has some merit. He may have felt threatened by the TSBA and our antics.

The world is full of *******s. This case won't change him, but it should change us. We should not f**k with the local constituency. We're guests in their county, and need to be somewhat courteous when encountering traffic. We gotta face the music: if we weren't blitzing the farm-to-markets, none of this would be an issue.

And one more lesson for all of us: don't write checks your body can't cash. Yeah, that sounds trite, but it's true. If you slap a guy's mirror, or if he cuts you off, you better be ready to defend that action. Billy Bob sure was.

F1
December 10th, 2001, 08:22 PM
Well, no one's wrong, all points are valid and should be stored in the lessons learned cabinet. This topic needs to be closed, what! did I read someone say Albert can ride again!

hang loose everyone, we're all friends here

Faisal

Pod
December 10th, 2001, 08:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
We gotta face the music: if we weren't blitzing the farm-to-markets, none of this would be an issue.
QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point there Weave. Listen, take these as points and make up your own mind. This is how I see it:
1) Let the legal system do it's thing on the assault charge. The Assualt charge has nothing to do with the civil action, and the assault charge will have to be prosecuted for it to have much-of-any merit in a civil court. I'm not trying to be condescending but you aren't going to criminal court in Plano, dude. You are going to court in BFE where Bubba's (your assailant)daddy ate breakfast with Leroy's Daddy (the prosecutor) at Jimbob's (the judge) restraunt every day since they were 12. Soon as they are done having coffee they are gonna go across the street and listen to some Dallas Rice Rocket boy whine about getting into a little scuffle that happened 2 years ago. Decide to get a jury? You have 12 jurors who's lives depend on tendin farm and raisin hogs and they'd rather be doing that then listen to you moan about a scratched up I-Talyun motorcycle &lt;chuckle, chuckle from the judge&gt;
2) If they decide to prosecute, prepare to make a minimum of 2 trips out to BFE, not including any appeals or sentence hearings. Then comes the civil case trips. How many will that take? 2? What if it's only 1? Will you regain anything?

OR you could just ride out there with a Molotov Cocktail in your tank bag and burn his little chicken coop down. :-D

I'm not a pacifist by any means, but you have to balance these things out. Did you deserve $1000 worth of injury to your property? Have you learned a $1000 lesson?
Everybody here who knows me knows I've done a lot dumber **** than this and I have learned WAY WAY more than $1000 worth of lessons. ****, I owe Karma a few mil and I learned just over $47,000 worth of lessons in 2000 alone.
/soapbox
Pod

TankSlapper
December 10th, 2001, 08:44 PM
I wish you guys would quit screwing up the good riding areas for us riders that always obey the laws and speed limits. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

F1
December 10th, 2001, 09:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TankSlapper:
I wish you guys would quit screwing up the good riding areas for us riders that always obey the laws and speed limits. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Coming from a guy that takes 100mph sweepers with one hand on the throttle and scratching his balls with the other!

Faisal ZX-6R

DaJacker
December 10th, 2001, 10:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pod:

OR you could just ride out there with a Molotov Cocktail in your tank bag and burn his little chicken coop down. :-D
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thissounds like the only thing that makes sense!
:D

DaJacker
December 10th, 2001, 10:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by martys748:
"chalk it up to experience" what does this tell Jo-Bob red neck dirt farmer? that its open season on bikers and he can get away with it. This goat ropper needs to understand that he is responceable for his actions, ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd Like to reissue my statment!

TankSlapper
December 10th, 2001, 10:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:


Coming from a guy that takes 100mph sweepers with one hand on the throttle and scratching his balls with the other!

Faisal ZX-6R<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only do that in emergency situations. LMAO

:D :D :D

SIN
December 10th, 2001, 11:02 PM
OK, I have jump in here and suggest that you follow up take the guy to court. All of the arguments posted in this thread that suggest that you should not pursue with legal action are heartless and at best speculative. You were, violently and repeatedly, physically assaulted while operating your motor vehicle. You have a rock solid case despite any aforementioned actions that may have upset this guy. He will not get any special treatment for being the hometown guy. If he has priors the judge will nail him, and if he does this type of thing again it is in the public record. Its about principal not just about the money, although with the (helmet, bike, doctor bills, prescription medications, pain management therapy, pain & suffering) it could be a hefty settlement $$. ;) Of course, this was your plan anyhow or else you would have defended yourself a little better and put this guy down, right!? :D

dcanovali
December 10th, 2001, 11:06 PM
Hey I know, Let's get a rope and we'll have our selfs a good old lynching party. :eek:

john.sblendorio
December 11th, 2001, 08:23 AM
The guy who was almost pushed off the road could should also press charges for attempted manslaughter with a deadly weapon. Bet he changes is outlook with felony charges. As far as having luch with the jury, let me tell you something. His freinds and family will be embarrased that he commited such an ungodly act.

Mike, do not back down. He has to be held accountable. God forbid it ever happens, but I would not want to think about what I would do the day some one tries to push me or someone I love off the road while riding becuase they did not like getting passed. That is attempted manslaughter. He is lucky, I would have pushed for a felony. Wrong is wrong. If he was coming back from church than shame on him even more.

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Ducati_John ]

Pod
December 11th, 2001, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Justin_Hodan_SIN:
He will not get any special treatment for being the hometown guy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!! You've never been to court in Smallsville, Texas, have you?

Okay maybe there's a little confusion here.
He can't take the guy to court for assault. He CAN testify against him in court.
The DA can't take the assailant to civil court. Mike has to sue him. And the rules in civil court are totally different than criminal court. I think you guys are confusing the two. If you punch me I can't take you to civil court, it first has to be proven that I in fact was assaulted by the defendant in a manner that caused quantifiable damage.
I would contact his insurance company. Was he in his car when he pushed you over? If he has reasonable control over his vehicle when the altercation began, you can claim against insurance co. for the damages, then let the ins company subragate (sp?) against him in court.
just a thought.

yellowducati900ss
December 11th, 2001, 11:14 AM
About the Insurance Company thing, Good point POD. We were stopped at a stop sign and he opened his door into my bike, forcing it to the ground. There is lots of Red paint on my bike to prove it. That probably won't, however, pay for my helmet. He was out of the car when he damaged that.

Yes I know the difference between Criminal and Civil cases (I watch Law & Order don't ya know).

I will definately be pursuing the criminal Assault case against him.

It was the civil case that I'm considering. As far as taking a day or two off of work, that doesn't bother me. My vacation doesn't accrue, it magically appears on Jan. 1. I have three weeks and three personal days to blow. There is no way I can go through all of that before I ditch this company early next year. :D

In fact, it will give me an excuse to go on interviews, "Boss, I have to go to another court date and that's also why I'm wearing my suit today...". :D

Brett
December 11th, 2001, 01:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Stoops:
...when he pulled up next to Mike and then deliberately knocked him off the bike and was then pummeling him, the third party (his son) pulled that shovel out of the truck, I may have been compelled to draw my licensed handgun on the both of them at that point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's face it, this guy is lucky he was messing with the DFW chapter and not the Killeen, Austin or SA chapters! Hell, on a good ride we get more people armed than not!

Redneck knocks down bike & rider, mass of riders head toward redneck. Kid gets shovel, mass of riders turn shovel into pepper popper. Redneck yells for his wife to bring him his brown trowsers.... :)

CanyonAce
December 11th, 2001, 02:49 PM
Mike et al -

Sorry to hear about the mishap(s).

Not that you need another person's $.02 worth thrown into the mix - but here goes anyway:

1. Ya, you definitely oughta pursue the criminal charges against Billy-Bob. Odds are, if he pulled some **** like this and he's older than 14, he's pulled it in the past, so he has a record ($5 at your local Police Dep't running his plate would answer THAT mystery).

2. I'd go after his insurance company for the damage to the bike AND the helmet - and something just shy of their $7,500.00 contestable threshold for personal injury. Let him enjoy the increased premiums. If that doesn't work, then I'd pursue civil charges. It's pretty much a no-brainer, and even if his wife/2nd cousin IS the judges niece - you've got half a dozen witnesses to the fact that he assaulted you with his vehicle and his person...

As far as the SMR-related issues:

250-guy sounds like an excellent candidate to invite to ride with any other club. Typical case of riding with ego instead of brain. Some riders confuse speed with skill, and take unnecessary risks not only with their own lives, but everyone else's in the group. It's not just a matter of whether they'll physically take YOU out, it's also a matter of the distraction they cause to everyone else in the group who is worried for them, and the mayhem they create on the roads by pissing off the cage drivers. When you quit enjoying the ride because you're wasting too much time worrying about someone else, it's a good time to invite that person to leave. Ya, you can't blame everything that went wrong that day on that one guy, but you gotta wonder if some of those things might not have happened if your mind was free to focus on your ride, not his.

Something we did for a while in our little chapter was CARRY GRENADES ! No, wait a minute - forget that last line. Last summer when we had some problem newbies, we instituted a rule where no-one rode with us unless they were sponsored by an established member. That member vouched for the newbie, rode with him a few times prior to the SMR, and kept him under his wing for the first 3 rides or so. That way, only one person is distracted by the newbie. You'll still need a sweep rider... I suppose it's pretty similar to the mentorship program you guys were talking about a while back. And to hell with sugar-coating it - if/when he shows up again, just be straight up and tell him he's dangerous and unwelcome. Sometimes I think we're just too ****ed polite. If the local squids wanna simper & whine about us being "elitists", that's fine. IF they grow up, they might eventually understand why.

DaJacker
December 11th, 2001, 03:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave Eller:
Mike et al -

Sorry to hear about the mishap(s).

Not that you need another person's $.02 worth thrown into the mix - but here goes anyway:

1. Ya, you definitely oughta pursue the criminal charges against Billy-Bob. Odds are, if he pulled some **** like this and he's older than 14, he's pulled it in the past, so he has a record ($5 at your local Police Dep't running his plate would answer THAT mystery).

2. I'd go after his insurance company for the damage to the bike AND the helmet - and something just shy of their $7,500.00 contestable threshold for personal injury. Let him enjoy the increased premiums. If that doesn't work, then I'd pursue civil charges. It's pretty much a no-brainer, and even if his wife/2nd cousin IS the judges niece - you've got half a dozen witnesses to the fact that he assaulted you with his vehicle and his person...

As far as the SMR-related issues:

250-guy sounds like an excellent candidate to invite to ride with any other club. Typical case of riding with ego instead of brain. Some riders confuse speed with skill, and take unnecessary risks not only with their own lives, but everyone else's in the group. It's not just a matter of whether they'll physically take YOU out, it's also a matter of the distraction they cause to everyone else in the group who is worried for them, and the mayhem they create on the roads by pissing off the cage drivers. When you quit enjoying the ride because you're wasting too much time worrying about someone else, it's a good time to invite that person to leave. Ya, you can't blame everything that went wrong that day on that one guy, but you gotta wonder if some of those things might not have happened if your mind was free to focus on your ride, not his.

Something we did for a while in our little chapter was CARRY GRENADES ! No, wait a minute - forget that last line. Last summer when we had some problem newbies, we instituted a rule where no-one rode with us unless they were sponsored by an established member. That member vouched for the newbie, rode with him a few times prior to the SMR, and kept him under his wing for the first 3 rides or so. That way, only one person is distracted by the newbie. You'll still need a sweep rider... I suppose it's pretty similar to the mentorship program you guys were talking about a while back. And to hell with sugar-coating it - if/when he shows up again, just be straight up and tell him he's dangerous and unwelcome. Sometimes I think we're just too ****ed polite. If the local squids wanna simper & whine about us being "elitists", that's fine. IF they grow up, they might eventually understand why.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


UMMM ditto! Dave you hit the hammer right on th nail of the head!
:D

F1
December 11th, 2001, 03:16 PM
Using CHL privileges in road rage situation seems extremely immature! It's like consuming a whole bottle of whiskey just so you could crash.

I'm sorry that I totally disagree with the repeated mention of deadly force usage on street/trafic situations caused by irrational driving/riding. This will shed bad rep on TSBA, not SMR crashes!

Coming from a person with a deep passion for firearms and holder of several trophies for long range target shooting.

Faisal ZX-6R

CanyonAce
December 11th, 2001, 04:43 PM
DISCLAIMER:

FWIW - I was kidding about the Hand Grenades.

Just thought I'd clear up any possible misconceptions. ;)

Inlaw1
December 11th, 2001, 05:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:
Using CHL privileges in road rage situation seems extremely immature! It's like consuming a whole bottle of whiskey just so you could crash. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And your analogy is irrational. Faisal, if you loaded your handgun, put it in your holster, got in your car, drove out on the freeway and proceeded to drive like an idiot, flipping folks off, running up behind them flashing your lights and honking your horn in order to incite an incident and then pulled your gun.....your analogy would be correct. Your analogy in this case however is way out in left field.

And it's not something I or anyone else I know that is a CHL holder would do because we are rational, mature individuals.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:
I'm sorry that I totally disagree with the repeated mention of deadly force usage on street/trafic situations caused by irrational driving/riding. This will shed bad rep on TSBA, not SMR crashes!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Phhhhttt!! Give me a break. We're not talking using deadly force for street/traffic situations. We're talking the use of deadly force to stop an assault by multiple attackers, one with a shovel. Big freakin difference Faisal. This guy could of hurt Mike pretty good if he had just grabbed the chin of his helmet and slung him around for a while until his neck snapped. This could of been a lot uglier than it was.

In fact in my post I said "I may have been compelled". I didn't say I would of pulled a gun, let alone use it. And Brett is pretty much goofin. You think self defense is only justified at home?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:
Coming from a person with a deep passion for firearms and holder of several trophies for long range target shooting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, well I've got trophies for my shooting also. Did 4 years in IPSC. I've also carried a handgun for 20+ years. Had to draw my gun twice in defense of myself or a third party. Been the victim of violent crime before I started carrying. We've been talking in the context of an assault. While it may have started as road rage, it turned into assault by multiple attackers. And a vehicle was used which can be proven to be a weapon in itself in court.

You may have a passion for firearms, but you don't seem to be up on your right to self defense.

Inlaw1
December 11th, 2001, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave Eller:
FWIW - I was kidding about the Hand Grenades.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yea.....ok David....whatever! :D ;)

F1
December 11th, 2001, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Stoops:


You may have a passion for firearms, but you don't seem to be up on your right to self defense.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are different schools of thought on the subject and an argument like this could go on indefinitely!

What I am against is the individual who alters his behavior because of the fact that he is carrying. Behavior which leads to create situations or search for situations where the constitutional right could be employed!

CHL calls out for added restraint on an individuals behavior as opposed to the above, this takes dicipline which does not come easy, such a person if compelled to draw would not do so to wave the weapon in someones face, he would discharge it or let it stay holstered and not even give a sign that he is carrying.

I think to that even you would agree.

Faisal ZX-6R :D

bjhughes
December 11th, 2001, 07:17 PM
I gotta go with Gary on this one. I have a CHL as well. If some SOB jumped out of his truck, smacked my cycle, and proceeded to ***** slap me about, **** right I'd (1) kick his *** up and down the street, step on his nuts, and make him cry for momma, or (2) let him taste the barrel of my S&W. Now if somebody else jumped out of the vehicle and started swingin a shovel, then I'd actually get pissed !

Keep in mind that I have never (ever !) had to pull a weapon on anybody, nor would I want to, but I also would not take any crap if provoked. It's just my lovable nature I suppose.

And Mike...you tell me honestly (in hindsight) that you would handle this situation exactly the same if it happened again. I'm guessing you would prefer to just go ahead and kick the dude's *** and move on.

bvia
December 11th, 2001, 08:20 PM
I gotta get back in the SMR swing...I'm missing all the cool stuff. Nuthin' ever happens when I lead...;-(

bvia
December 11th, 2001, 08:29 PM
Once he head about what happened to Mike, he rushed right out to emulate his biking hero!

emulates hero Mike (http://entertainment.msn.com/news/eonline/121001_arnold.asp)

and ****ed if, in this strange range of road ra****is...

he decided to take one for Marty as well! (http://entertainment.msn.com/news/eonline/121001_stork.asp)

strange days indeed!
bill

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: bill via ]

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: bill via ]

Hood Ornament
December 11th, 2001, 10:06 PM
http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=152972

yellowducati900ss
December 11th, 2001, 10:11 PM
Ok, let's all calm down a little. We need to get the facts straight in this thing.

1) The "shovel" incident is was not "some kid swinging a shovel around". After I had pushed the guy away and had circled around to survey the situation, I saw the kid reach into the back of the truck for something. He was on the other side of the pickup from me and his mom was right next to him. He pulled out the shovel and immediately his mom made him put it back down in the truck bed. Yes, the kid could have brought it into play but he didn't so he really did not assault me.

2) The initial incident of the people veering into the road is totally un-provable. I was the only witness besides the kid on the 250 and I really don't think he realized what was going on. He probably saw the car coming straight at him and was too scared to realize what the other cars were doing. He had no business being where he was and I can guarantee you he had no idea what all the factors leading up to his poor decision where. You can call it "attempted vehicular assault" all you want but without any other witnesses there is no judge that would convict.

Inlaw1
December 11th, 2001, 11:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:
There are different schools of thought on the subject and an argument like this could go on indefinitely!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed. This can be a never ending debate. There are so many "what ifs" in these situations and no two are alike that it's hard to say what you could / should do in any given situation.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:
What I am against is the individual who alters his behavior because of the fact that he is carrying. Behavior which leads to create situations or search for situations where the constitutional right could be employed!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again, I would agree with you. Someone that carries to make himself feel bigger or wants to be the hero is the wrong person to be carrying. Like I said earlier, I've yet to actually run into any CHL holder that bears this type of mentality. I think it's more of a media / Hollywood hype thing.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:
CHL calls out for added restraint on an individuals behavior as opposed to the above, this takes dicipline which does not come easy, such a person if compelled to draw would not do so to wave the weapon in someones face, he would discharge it or let it stay holstered and not even give a sign that he is carrying.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again, we are in total agreement. Like I said, if someone confronts me in traffic, I ditty bop out of there quietly. CHL holder's have an obligation, morally and legally, to make sure nothing escalates in any given scenario. Even in a threatening situation I am going to find every out I can, employing deadly force is the very last option with me as it should be with anyone who makes the personal choice to carry a firearm to protect themselve, family, and property.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Faisal:
I think to that even you would agree.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We agree on all this Faisal. But in the context I outlined earlier where someone knocked me off the bike and then attacked me I may feel compelled to draw my weapon. But life or limb must be threatened first. And that was in response to you saying we shouldn't even be talking about it as it will make us look bad.

James Loney
December 12th, 2001, 12:55 AM
Me and Dave think alike if this is true you sould go get the vehicle insurance info. The sherif should have or can most likly get that info. If his door made contact with the motorcycle and this caused the damage to the bike that would fall under his insurance also if their was any injuries caused when the bike fell. Remember it is easier to get money from a insurance than a person. Also If your are awarded moneys by the court and he does not pay, you can go to our frends at DPS, with award papers they can insure he is not reissued a new license untill the sum is payed. I also think I heard they can have his DL suspended untill the money is payed or a payment plan is put into effect. This is assuming he has a DL and or insurance. However if the door opened into the bike knocking it over and the insurance pays then you go sue for the pain and suffering. Also make sure that the charges are not reduced. If that many people saw the "attack" by the r-neck then you should have no real problem in court. I have sued for some one throwing a full beer can at me that hit my bike and won. I further more hope that you continue with the charges against the r-neck, people like this can kill people on bikes and say it was an accident. However if he was charged for assualt and later went to court for a attack on a motorcycles it would show a pattern. The best of luck to you. Watch out for those **** mirrors. :D

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: James Loney ]

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: James Loney ]

bvia
December 12th, 2001, 09:41 AM
On the last day of the '01 IBI I had 2 beer cans thrown at me..on the same ****ed day! The first was in the hill country, the second was 2 miles from my home.

Both times I was lucky because they were
1. Only half full
2. The other half was ingested by the throwers
3. Half full beer cans have the aerodynamics of...a half full beer can

...suckers...;)&gt;
bill "dodger of beer cans" via

Geek
December 12th, 2001, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bill via:
On the last day of the '01 IBI I had 2 b
Both times I was lucky because they were
1. Only half full
2. The other half was ingested by the throwers
3. Half full beer cans have the aerodynamics of...a half full ia<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm impressed those Harley riders you buzzed in the Gap were capabable of 1) riding with one hand and 2) not going off the edge while taking their eyes off the road.

At least beer consumption explains some of the lines they were using in the switchbacks :D

JoelAndre
December 18th, 2001, 08:09 PM
Hey Mike,
Its not the way you ride, its what you ride!

No body has ever messed with me after I started riding Harleys!

http://home.mindspring.com/~prometheus451/_uimages/Harley.jpg

Ryan Hulslander
December 19th, 2001, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary Stoops:

We agree on all this Faisal. But in the context I outlined earlier where someone knocked me off the bike and then attacked me I may feel compelled to draw my weapon. But life or limb must be threatened first.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this case I doubt if I would have drawn. Gear is too bulky, visibility sucks and you'd be about as lithe and agile as the Michelin Man.

One swift "Shoei Salute" head butt to Farmer John would have ended the battle of wits.

You are a greater man than I. Someone leaps out of their truck and starts beating me and it's ON! Then again, I wouldn't have twisted his mirror, but that's beside the point.

There's a whole lot more stuff that can be done to idiots like that than inflame them if you know his license and who he is.

Mike - Speaking of which - post his plate number or name here. I'll run the plate and check for a criminal record while u wait.

It's $25 and a day in court, (not to mention not too difficult to go after his insurance - just get a copy of the police report). The bottom line is if don't do anything you lose out the cost of repairs and suffer the personal humiliation. It could also force me to someday come up against the a**hole and since he got away with it once, feels he can be brave and do it again forcing me to finish the job you started! :D

If you try, the most on top of that you would lose is about $25. OTOH, if you win a judgement - slap a lien on his house or other property. When he goes to sell because he caught his brother (or their 14 year old son) banging his wife, and sells due to divorce it just adds to the anguish. His title service fees are out $1,200+ and he looks like an idiot with no additional work on your part.


Just my $.02 on the $3.50 everyone else has already given.

Mel
April 14th, 2005, 03:56 PM
bump For hooligan

DaJacker
April 14th, 2005, 04:13 PM
WOW years have gone by, why did Dave want this?

Mel
April 14th, 2005, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Da Jacker:
WOW years have gone by, why did Dave want this? I thought it had the black eye pics in here, but they aren't coming up. too old I guess

JohnT
April 14th, 2005, 04:57 PM
Ok, so what was the outcome? Did the Sheepraper get arrested? Did Mike get his bike fixed?

DaJacker
April 14th, 2005, 05:01 PM
NA NA the DA dropped the ball on this one, I tried to convience mike to go to smalls claims never did

JohnT
April 14th, 2005, 05:04 PM
That **** "good ole boy system".

Dave Whitson
April 14th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Thanks Mel,

Oh the good ol' days. :D At least Marty has a reliable bike now. tongue.gif Reading back through, it looks like I had the pictures at one time. I don't know what happened to them, but they were quite funny.

CrashCrain
April 15th, 2005, 06:10 AM
Being A CHL guy you know the risk of Assault. Lautenburg Amendment. But they should have not let this guy off. And the kid with the shovel will be doing the same thing when he gets old enough to drive.

But we do have plates numbers right...HEHEHEHEHE