PDA

View Full Version : Horrible tragedy - Tsunami photo.



AmbeR1
January 2nd, 2005, 12:01 AM
Its hard to grasp half of a planet away. Our government "protects us" from images that show the true tragedy.

Don't click this image if you can't handle a real photograph of tragedy and death. It contains many, many dead people.

Now.. consider the fact that there are over 100,000 more dead people. God rest their innocent souls.

http://img138.exs.cx/img138/5231/ruumiita4ft4zq.jpg

SE955i
January 2nd, 2005, 12:38 AM
Whow!

Brad Felmey
January 2nd, 2005, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by AmbeR1:
Our government "protects us" from images that show the true tragedy.Horsefeathers.

F2
January 2nd, 2005, 12:30 PM
Pictures truly worth thousand words. Those people really need support form every one on this planet alive.

Tony L
January 2nd, 2005, 08:29 PM
This is one terrible event. Back when it was 12k dead it was bad enough, but now it's +150k dead, and flooding; Not to mention the disease they are expecting next. Truly terrible.

SE955i
January 2nd, 2005, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by AmbeR1:
Our government "protects us" from images that show the true tragedy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Horsefeathers.
I believe it is called the FCC. Federal Communications Commission.

Gerry
January 3rd, 2005, 03:59 AM
There is so much that could be said about this tragic event, but, like all of the horrors that afflict our world, those fortunate enough to be unaffected (except by the magnitude of the devistation) can do so much more through our actions than our words. It is almost inconceivable how little we must sacrifice in order that a fellow man, woman or child will survive this and other horrors both natural and man-made. Do what you can, for the true measure of any civilisation is in its compasion for its fellow man.

And whatever God they praise, may He have mercy on their souls.

Greg Sampson
January 3rd, 2005, 12:36 PM
I'm having a lot of trouble comprehending the extent of the damage and loss of life from the tsunami. 155,000 and growing. I looked at the list of casualties per country and there are still thousands "missing" because all they can do is check to see who is back in the country yet from airplane manifests (as I understand it).

As Tony said, add to this famine, disease and other such things and the actual death toll will be much higher. But, honestly, how do you put that into perspective? The photo helps. I've found others on Yahoo but it isn't easy.

And uhm, I don't think the FCC has anything to do with "censoring the press". Newsrooms choose what to pull off of the AP newswires and the decision is up to only 2 people, the editor and the publisher. Take a look at the New York Times, they'll print almost anything on the front page and have been printing gruesome photos (i know this only because i work for a national newspaper).

But one thing I can say is that our media is sanitized when it comes to events in life which truly matter (like the tsunami), and completely sensationalized when it comes to bull**** issues like Scott Peterson and Jessica Simpson.

929er
January 3rd, 2005, 01:27 PM
I've seen several videos and several grossly factual pictures of the events and I have to say that up until last week, I was completely ignorant to tsunamis. But after reading the newspapers, visiting NOAA, Ogrish.com ,several other sites with videos, graphs, pictures, and models I have a whole new perspective.

Brad Felmey
January 3rd, 2005, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by SE955i:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Originally posted by AmbeR1:
Our government "protects us" from images that show the true tragedy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Horsefeathers.
I believe it is called the FCC. Federal Communications Commission. </font>[/QUOTE]So you think the FCC regulates print media, the Internet, satellite, cable, and so forth? Nope.

sv-flyer
January 4th, 2005, 01:00 PM
I know Iam going to get NAILED for this, but, isnt Thailand the place where people fly into from all over the world to have sex with 10 year-old children ? Iam sure they have a pretty healthy
herion market also, O yea, you can also get cooked dog to eat while your having sex with that 10 year-old, O yea they also have rampant AIDS epedemic going on, not to mention that the majority of the population is heavy Islamic,

I believe in helping people who are down, just that Thailand is a very nasty place.

F2
January 4th, 2005, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I know Iam going to get NAILED for this, but, isnt Thailand the place where people fly into from all over the world to have sex with 10 year-old children ? Iam sure they have a pretty healthy
herion market also, O yea, you can also get cooked dog to eat while your having sex with that 10 year-old, O yea they also have rampant AIDS epedemic going on, not to mention that the majority of the population is heavy Islamic,

I believe in helping people who are down, just that Thailand is a very nasty place. When it comes down to human life; Material Culture Religion does not make any difference. There were thousands of tourists who were over there in the same waters what do you think about them? They were helped and the same locals you are talking about have saved some of them. Sorry to read your post.

JustJenW
January 4th, 2005, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I know Iam going to get NAILED for this, but, isnt Thailand the place where people fly into from all over the world to have sex with 10 year-old children ? Iam sure they have a pretty healthy
herion market also, O yea, you can also get cooked dog to eat while your having sex with that 10 year-old, O yea they also have rampant AIDS epedemic going on, not to mention that the majority of the population is heavy Islamic,

I believe in helping people who are down, just that Thailand is a very nasty place. You are right. Was just reading an article about how many children are missing, who were previously located, and one young Swedish Boy was kidnapped from a hospital.

Its biblical I tell you...Read Genesis Chapter 19; regarding Sodom and Gomorrah.

Personally I send my heartfelt prayers to comfort those who lost and thats all. As for sending $$ I am so reluctant because of corruption with governments etc...Heck, some countries were blocking aid!!?? I will leave it up to George W to put my name on the 350 mil from the "American People."

Whitelightning
January 4th, 2005, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
Its biblical I tell you...Read Genesis Chapter 19; regarding Sodom and Gomorrah.

Personally I send my heartfelt prayers to comfort those who lost and thats all. As for sending $$ I am so reluctant because of corruption with governments etc...Heck, some countries were blocking aid!!?? I will leave it up to George W to put my name on the 350 mil from the "American People." http://deephousepage.com/smilies/thumb.gifHave to agree here for sure, no doubt about it http://deephousepage.com/smilies/nod.gif

Tony L
January 4th, 2005, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I know Iam going to get NAILED for this, but, isnt Thailand the place where people fly into from all over the world to have sex with 10 year-old children ? Iam sure they have a pretty healthy
herion market also, O yea, you can also get cooked dog to eat while your having sex with that 10 year-old, O yea they also have rampant AIDS epedemic going on, not to mention that the majority of the population is heavy Islamic,

I believe in helping people who are down, just that Thailand is a very nasty place. And everyone in Texas is a cowboy hat wearing, oil tycoon, while everyone in the US is a rich, war-mongering, elitist. Elsewhere, all Britians have decaying teeth, and the French are truly, as a whole, *******. Iraqui's all hate America, Jews are to be led to ruin, while the Christians are fed to lions.

Or, maybe, somewhere along the road to complete and utter ignorance. Someone, somewhere will see the light, put down the morning news, and take it upon themselves to actually wake up and see the world and it's individual's for what they are. Instead of as the whole, to which they inadvertently belong.

Educate yourself, instead of relying on others for your information.

BTW, Thailand was not the only country hit...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/image_maps/05/1/1104843605/img/image.gif

PS, Everything you said in that post can ring true for, not only America as a whole, but DFW.

sv-flyer
January 4th, 2005, 03:02 PM
I would love to see you tell your words of wisdom to the 10 year old boy who is being passed to the next man for a "good time", a event that is condoned by the Thailand government. It is easy to sit in your chair sipping a beer, watching football & be blind to the real, horrible going ons in the world. Did I say the people of Thailand deserved to die ? Hell No. I just said that the country's government & policies were in my opion "immoral".

Mel
January 4th, 2005, 03:20 PM
depending how religious you are, you can look at every diffent way. :(

Mother nature's way of taking care of over populated/diseased countries? Maybe

God punishing the immoral? Maybe

It's sad, but **** happens. They had no warning system because they are a too poor to do so. Or at least that's my understanding. I don't think that the devestation whould be even close here at home under the same circumstances. Yes, it saddens me, but I don't loose sleep or jump around trying to figure out how I can send them money. I figure my tax $$ are gonna go weither I want them to or not. Personally, I'd like to see all those care packages being delivered sent to some of our own homeless and starving, not a bunch of aids/disease stricken folks who are gonna die anyway. Why do we always have to jump to the aid of others. We are so far in dept it aint even funny. :rolleyes:

Now everyone, don't get into degrading matches and flame fests with those who don't agree w/ your opinion.

Have a nice day. smile.gif

Rlhay2
January 4th, 2005, 03:29 PM
I just said that the country's government & policies were in my opion "immoral". That creaking sound is Pandora's box being opened.

Political firestorm to ensure. The key words:
</font> government</font> policies</font> opinion</font> immoral</font>
I don't think the issue is biblical, moral nor political. A true tragedy has happened! No country is perfect, we need only look within for that to become inarguably obvious. This could very easily degrade into a political debate regarding whether ANY government is profit driven or motive driven. It would take perfect people staffing the system for it to be a perfect system.

I am of the opinion that a truly tragic event has transpired and my personal feelings (if any) of the country are not relevant. I feel for the familes, friends, and any entity that is negatively impacted by this.

The only thing you can do when something like this happens to learn from it and keep on living.

This has been a "40 acres and a mule" statement.
--
Ronnie

bjhughes
January 4th, 2005, 03:33 PM
I'd like to see all those care packages being delivered sent to some of our own homeless and starving I hear you there...try watching a few documentaries (or make a personal visit) of places in Alabama, Mississippi, or even some of our inner cities. Truly dreadful and disgusting what we tolerate in our own backyard.

The tsunami-type events get the press when they occur, and rightly so to some extent, but we just about pick the "tragedy of the day" anytime, anywhere.

Greg Sampson
January 4th, 2005, 03:34 PM
First of all, where in the hell do you get your information? Talk about sensationalized press and the power of the Internet. Second, even if it is true and some 10-year-old is being sodomized, wasn't that scandal uncovered in more than a few dozen churches in the good ol' U.S.A. last year?

I suppose you think the attack on the World Trade Center was not a result of people who think the same way you do?

Americans are seen, in many places, as an evil empire spreading itself across the globe in an effort to homoginize culture... that may be true of our government and a few religious groups, but (like Tony said) as a whole we're not all bad. Nor is anyone else. Unlike the idiots that renamed "french" fries to freedom fries our country as a whole does not support the "war on terrorism" in the form it has taken, just look at the recent election for evidence of that.

You are displaying blind hatred or condemnation of a society you either no nothing about aside from what was on the Internet, or you have some sort first hand knowledge from living there but are not expressing yourself adequately.

But, for those of you who want to see some satelite pictures form the region, go here:
Hello, I am a link. (http://www.crisp.nus.edu.sg/tsunami/tsunami.html)

Lance Youts
January 4th, 2005, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I know Iam going to get NAILED for this, but, isnt Thailand the place where people fly into from all over the world to have sex with 10 year-old children ? Iam sure they have a pretty healthy
herion market also, O yea, you can also get cooked dog to eat while your having sex with that 10 year-old, O yea they also have rampant AIDS epedemic going on, not to mention that the majority of the population is heavy Islamic,

I believe in helping people who are down, just that Thailand is a very nasty place. Are you trying to make a point related to the tsunami tragedy? Some people think the US is a very nasty place due to American's voracious appetite for drugs; high rates of infidelity and divorce; prostitution (legal and illegal); and incredible homicide rates. Now, does that make 9/11 okay?

And as far as Thailand being a very nasty place, parts are and parts aren't. The Phuket resort was an upscale tourist destination for many Europeans.

When you make such commentary in relation to a tragedy that has destroyed so many lives and families, it demonstrates how disconnected you are.

[ January 04, 2005, 16:30: Message edited by: Lance Youts ]

Geek
January 4th, 2005, 04:08 PM
Just think... if it was the San Andreas fault that had let go, the "Ocean front property in Arizona" song would be prophetic! :rolleyes: :D

Has anyone noticed that nobody mentioned the bad habits of Canadians? tongue.gif
Yeah yeah yeah... let it go. Too easy.

[ January 04, 2005, 16:09: Message edited by: Geek ]

DaJacker
January 4th, 2005, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Speed Kitten:
I don't think that the devestation whould be even close here at home under the same circumstances. think again, those things travel at 500mph+ in deep water, so buy the time NOAA got its information compliled it and got the word out to the government then to the radio and news stations, it would be on top of populated areas that are now grid locked in traffic and panic in a matter of hours, hell you can get stuck on 635 for an hour and not move 15 miles on a normal day

Hood Ornament
January 4th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I know Iam going to get NAILED for this, but, isnt Thailand the place where people fly into from all over the world to have sex with 10 year-old children ? Iam sure they have a pretty healthy
herion market also, O yea, you can also get cooked dog to eat while your having sex with that 10 year-old, O yea they also have rampant AIDS epedemic going on, not to mention that the majority of the population is heavy Islamic,

I believe in helping people who are down, just that Thailand is a very nasty place. Of course you're gonna get nailed, especially when you just start making crap up or bring totally illogical arguments to the table.

Lemme see, 95% of the population is Buddhist, Even if it were true, what point could you possibly be making in regards to them being Islamic?

Yup, their government is corrupt and immoral, but then a lot more people in this world have that viewpoint about our government then theirs.

The reason they have such a healthy heroin market is because of rich americans with plenty of money and too much time on their hands.

Oh gee, you can get cooked dog there, oh my God, it's the end of the world. :rolleyes:

As for the child prostituition, bet you the largest samplers of that sick plate are Americans.

[ January 04, 2005, 17:04: Message edited by: Albie ]

Hood Ornament
January 4th, 2005, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by B.J. Hughes:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I'd like to see all those care packages being delivered sent to some of our own homeless and starving I hear you there...try watching a few documentaries (or make a personal visit) of places in Alabama, Mississippi, or even some of our inner cities. Truly dreadful and disgusting what we tolerate in our own backyard.
</font>[/QUOTE]It will never happen. Most people here like to pretend there is no poverty or problems here at home. To admit our failure here in our own backyard would be proclaiming to the world we aren't perfect.

NathanH
January 4th, 2005, 05:13 PM
I find sentiments of "God was punishing &lt;fill in the blank&gt;" or "what a crappy, disease-infested, overpopulated part of the world" to be insensitive at best, bordering on outright ignorant and dangerous.

For starters, "that part of the world" isn't as backwards as National Geographic photos can make it seem. It's not all ox-carts and loin cloths. They have high-tech, modern cities where everybody drives cars and wear suits (except casual Fridays) just like we do. They have huge high-rises, oil refineries, industry and commerce. And they also have slums - just like parts of the Western world. Are there areas that are still less developed? Of course. But don't make the mistake of thinking that what was washed away were a few grass huts and chicken coops. It could have just as easily happened not far to the SE from where it did and washed a few miles of Australia out to sea.

As for the wrath of God argument, I find it very disturbing. I believe in God and I believe he blesses and takes away. But, I don't believe that he *causes* widespread destruction by nature over many countries in punishment for the acts of some. By that argument, every catastophic event of nature is the result of widespread sin in the region. What was Florida's big sin that they got hit by multiple back-to-back hurricanes? Must have been a lot of sin going on in Moore, OK for half the town to get leveled by a tornado. Never mind that it's smack in the middle of the bible belt with a church on every other corner. Did you know that several prominent Muslim clerics in the region are saying that it is punishment for tolerance of Christians and the celebration of Christmas in the region? If it's Godly punishment that causes natural disasters, why hasn't Las Vegas been consumed by a lightning storm and Hollywood by forest fires? Muslims, Jews AND Christians could probably agree on a reason behind that!

I think God created a world where sometimes bad things just happen - to individuals and sometimes to whole communities or even regions. And I think he expects people to grow through the tough experiences. And I especially think that he judges us on how we handle the trying times. When a neighbor is in need, even (or maybe especially) some Thai slum residents, we should show compassion and do what we can to help with what we've been given. It's not an opportunity to point a judgemental finger, it's an opportunity for us to demonstrate God's love and for them to trust in His provision. Who knows, the next catastrophe caused by the natural forces that God put in motion may affect you or your family.

Jus10
January 4th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Seen Futurama episode "godfellas", where bender is a god for a very short time??? (was on adult swim last night)

Fits this subject.. well kinda..

"Bender, being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch, like a safecracker or a pickpocket. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

okay.. grabbing my popcorn... carry on :D

JustJenW
January 4th, 2005, 05:44 PM
I can only look at distruction and despair and know that can only be caused by God. He destroyed towns, temples, and yes, even flooded the entire earth. Please know I was not being judgemental, rather awestruck at the power and magnitude of God.

I was also backing up the comment that children are falling prey to trafficers and pedophiles. Yes, some Americans are at the root of some of this evilness, drugs, porn, etc. However, since it is illegal in this country to have sex with a minor and shoot heroin, some American's do find it more convenient to travel overseas to carry on with their habits. It breaks my heart to hear of these lost children.

I believe everything happens for a reason. There is sin everywhere, even in and especially in some of the churches in the bible belt. I am sure God looks upon some of these places of worship and just is dumbfounded and sickened with all the bickering, pedophiles, embezzelment, etc.

Believe me, Brian and I know the Lord gives and takes away. We've had our own losses twice in '04 and I believe both times God had His hand in them. Am I angry, no. Confused, some. But am comforted to know God has a plan for us.

Whether it be Moore, Oklahoma, Tampa FL or Malasia, God has control. I also believe something good will come out of this situation in the East. Just like post 9/11. People will and have been rallying around and helping one another. Maybe even getting people to pray and talk to God, whereas maybe before they'd never done that.

However, I still have a problem with the government(s) denying aid and generally being a pain in the arse to get supplies to the victims. I just hope it's not too late for some of those who were delayed treatment.

Again, I believe Our God is an Awesome God and you you need proof yes, look at the pictures of this disaster, pictures of a calm beach or talk to a survivor of heart surgery or read Genesis 19 or Luke 18:35-42 giving sight to the blind.

SE955i
January 4th, 2005, 05:49 PM
Those before and after photos are unreal...

And what ever about the FCC. If you don't think that the laws on censorship ripple out to all forms of media, you just aren't looking at the whole picture. If the govt, didn't regulate you could buy child porn at the local 7-11. God forbid channel 4 would probably start its daily news with some just to get higher ratings for one day, for the shock value.

I donated, and I wish I had more to give.

Just for the record I think all people sexually abusing anyone just being locked up for life.

[ January 05, 2005, 11:12: Message edited by: SE955i ]

Tony L
January 4th, 2005, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I would love to see you tell your words of wisdom to the 10 year old boy who is being passed to the next man for a "good time", a event that is condoned by the Thailand government. It is easy to sit in your chair sipping a beer, watching football & be blind to the real, horrible going ons in the world. Did I say the people of Thailand deserved to die ? Hell No. I just said that the country's government & policies were in my opion "immoral". As much as I'd like to see you impart your words of wisdom to any one of the 155,000+ peoples' family's.

As for the rest of what I'd normally say, Greg already said it a few posts above. I'm giving his post my seal of approval and am ending on this note...

How is what you have said and feel any different than those who were partying on the streets on 9/12/01? If that's too extreme, how about the difference from you, to the folks who sillently think we deserved 9/11, because of our corrupt way of life. Even though, in reality, everything they know about the USA can be proven the minority?

Hood Ornament
January 4th, 2005, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Jen Whalen:

I believe everything happens for a reason. I'm just curious about this statement. I'm an ex Catholic so you'll have to bare with me for a minute. I'm not trying to corner you or make a point, just want to know the answer.

Is there scripture that goes into this? Or is this just more of a feeling you have. The thing is, I've always had pretty much the opposite feeling. I feel that very little happens for a reason. I feel that almost everything happens pretty much randomly and by accident. At least it sure explains things more easily then the "God planned it that way explanation."

sv-flyer
January 4th, 2005, 06:14 PM
I walk into my living room, turn on the news, and the LEAD STORY is how surviving children in THAILAND are being kidnapped out of hospitals and the streets and are thought to be sold on ASIA'S sex trade market.

I SWEAR I CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP, CHECK YOUR NEWS SOURCE.

I have a SERIOUS problem of my tax dollars being sent to such a IMMORAL government that condones such actions, and for those of you who have no problem with such practices, I pray for you.

And to those who thought my earlier posts about children in Asia being sold as sex toys was bullsh*t , I think I am owed a appology.

[ January 04, 2005, 18:18: Message edited by: Chuck C ]

Brad Felmey
January 4th, 2005, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by SE955i:
And what ever about the FCC. If you don't think that the laws on censorship ripple out to all forms of media, you just aren't looking at the whole picture. If the govt, didn't regulate you could buy child porn at the local 7-11. God forbid channel 4 would probably start its daily news with some just to get higher ratings for one day, for the shock value.If you have truly based your argument and your impressions upon the comparison of the photograph in question and child porn, then I am at a loss to respond logically, and will let you "win".

hearseboy
January 4th, 2005, 06:27 PM
:confused: Hmmm... think I'll keep this short:

Donated money:
I gladly give money to disaster relief, before local homeless. Guess I'm just more sympathetic to those whose lives are displaced instantly vs. the ones who likely fell on misfortune more gradually.

Bodies:
That picture really hit me. I remember trying to deal with a single "DeComp" in a Bio-hazardous manor. I can not fathom how to deal with these numbers, from a professional level (and I was signed up for a disaster assist volunteer program before).
On a human level, you never want to see your loved ones in this state (Warm Wet Climates + water located bodies + one weeks time= bad Rapid-Decomposition). So many people are having to identify, or view pictures, of them for what little piece of mind is to be had.
...It breaks my heart.

The World:
A. "No One is Innocent" (thank you Maynard James Keenan) B. I try very hard not to Narrow my Vision, as I find it helps me ride faster. ;)

Lance Youts
January 4th, 2005, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I walk into my living room, turn on the news, and the LEAD STORY is how surviving children in THAILAND are being kidnapped out of hospitals and the streets and are thought to be sold on ASIA'S sex trade market.

I SWEAR I CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP, CHECK YOUR NEWS SOURCE.

I have a SERIOUS problem of my tax dollars being sent to such a IMMORAL government that condones such actions, and for those of you who have no problem with such practices, I pray for you.

And to those who thought my earlier posts about children in Asia being sold as sex toys was bullsh*t , I think I am owed a appology. And our government isn't immoral? Dude, what planet you been on? I believe you have accepted the "US is a moral hero, spreading freedom and good cheer around the world" propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Rlhay2
January 4th, 2005, 06:33 PM
How many other countries have the label "hate crime"? I am asking, I truly don't know. But since we have such a label for certain crimes, does the mean the as a whole, or a majority, that we are a hateful people?

Some stereotypes are funny: Negative stereotypes are just that - negative!


And to those who thought my earlier posts about children in Asia being sold as sex toys was bullsh*t , I think I am owed a appology.The loss of a single childs innocence, regardless of how it may transpire is a tragedy! No one questioned what you said, their ire was raised by the generalities that were drawn by your following statements.

Alluding to the entire country as supporting/tolerating such atrocities is what has people up in arms.

Their country has problems, but so does ours. They have big problems, and again, so do we.

Right now if you can't be inclined to lend your support, they at least deserve your sympathy and empathy.

At least this is just my opinion.
--
Ronnie

needforspeed2
January 4th, 2005, 06:40 PM
I will leave it up to George W to put my name on the 350 mil from the "American People." Me too

[ January 04, 2005, 18:42: Message edited by: Lance Reynolds ]

JustJenW
January 4th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Albie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jen Whalen:

I believe everything happens for a reason. I'm just curious about this statement. I'm an ex Catholic so you'll have to bare with me for a minute. I'm not trying to corner you or make a point, just want to know the answer.

Is there scripture that goes into this? Or is this just more of a feeling you have. The thing is, I've always had pretty much the opposite feeling. I feel that very little happens for a reason. I feel that almost everything happens pretty much randomly and by accident. At least it sure explains things more easily then the "God planned it that way explanation." </font>[/QUOTE]Albie:

I believe by placing my day to day worries, problems, fears, wishes, requirements, etc in God's hands. Sure takes the burden off of my shoulders as to wondering why things happen good or bad.

It says in Matthew chaper 6 verses 25-34 to not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink...then goes on to say how the smallest birds are provided for, they eat, they rest. With Man being God's greatest creation I believe he will provide. The final line in that passage is...Do not worry about tommorow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. -- I love that.

So I just put my faith, beliefs in God and He takes care of the rest. I like the idea of the creator of all things being in charge of lil ole me.

It's also great in times of trial. When things go wrong..
God did it!!....when things go right...Praise God!!
Just have to remember to give credit where it is due. ;)

F1
January 4th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Poor God had nothing to do with it, it's Geology for crying out loud :D

F1
January 4th, 2005, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I know Iam going to get NAILED for this, but, isnt Thailand the place where people fly into from all over the world to have sex with 10 year-old children ? Iam sure they have a pretty healthy
herion market also, O yea, you can also get cooked dog to eat while your having sex with that 10 year-old, O yea they also have rampant AIDS epedemic going on, not to mention that the majority of the population is heavy Islamic,

I believe in helping people who are down, just that Thailand is a very nasty place. Wow, definitely your opinion. I see a trend here as your other opinion was "SV1000 suspension sux and is keeping me from keeping up with you guys". That's 2 in a row :rolleyes:

-=sean)=-
January 4th, 2005, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Geek:
Has anyone noticed that nobody mentioned the bad habits of Canadians? tongue.gif
Yeah yeah yeah... let it go. Too easy. I think NOT! Putting mayonaise (if that is in fact how it's spelled) on hamburgers?!? What are you thinking, MAN!

Tony L
January 4th, 2005, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I walk into my living room, turn on the news, and the LEAD STORY is how surviving children in THAILAND are being kidnapped out of hospitals and the streets and are thought to be sold on ASIA'S sex trade market.

I SWEAR I CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP, CHECK YOUR NEWS SOURCE.

I have a SERIOUS problem of my tax dollars being sent to such a IMMORAL government that condones such actions, and for those of you who have no problem with such practices, I pray for you.

And to those who thought my earlier posts about children in Asia being sold as sex toys was bullsh*t , I think I am owed a appology. As Ronnie said, I don't question that it goes on there, it's a fact. What you're doing is broadly generilizing the entire country, it's people, and it's Government. Not every person there has a hand in what happens, just like not every person has a hand in what happens with our Country. Not everyone there agrees with their Government either, just like here in the USA.

On what authority do you have it that their Government condone's what happens anyway? Since the same thing happens here, does our Government also condone such actions? Illegal things go on everywhere, you can't always blame the Government.

BTW: Your money is not going to the Government, it's going to the aid and relief of those caught up in the mess.

chasfuji
January 4th, 2005, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
I can only look at distruction and despair and know that can only be caused by God. He destroyed towns, temples, and yes, even flooded the entire earth. Please know I was not being judgemental, rather awestruck at the power and magnitude of God.

I was also backing up the comment that children are falling prey to trafficers and pedophiles. Yes, some Americans are at the root of some of this evilness, drugs, porn, etc. However, since it is illegal in this country to have sex with a minor and shoot heroin, some American's do find it more convenient to travel overseas to carry on with their habits. It breaks my heart to hear of these lost children.

I believe everything happens for a reason. There is sin everywhere, even in and especially in some of the churches in the bible belt. I am sure God looks upon some of these places of worship and just is dumbfounded and sickened with all the bickering, pedophiles, embezzelment, etc.

Believe me, Brian and I know the Lord gives and takes away. We've had our own losses twice in '04 and I believe both times God had His hand in them. Am I angry, no. Confused, some. But am comforted to know God has a plan for us.

Whether it be Moore, Oklahoma, Tampa FL or Malasia, God has control. I also believe something good will come out of this situation in the East. Just like post 9/11. People will and have been rallying around and helping one another. Maybe even getting people to pray and talk to God, whereas maybe before they'd never done that.

However, I still have a problem with the government(s) denying aid and generally being a pain in the arse to get supplies to the victims. I just hope it's not too late for some of those who were delayed treatment.

Again, I believe Our God is an Awesome God and you you need proof yes, look at the pictures of this disaster, pictures of a calm beach or talk to a survivor of heart surgery or read Genesis 19 or Luke 18:35-42 giving sight to the blind. A few billion years from now when the sun blows up and destroys the earth, I'm sure a couple of aliens will look down on what was once the earth and with sad smiles and weary eyes, shake their heads and say " ... it was just Gord wreaking his revenge because those heathens did not believe in him."

So explain to an agnostic physicist how a natural geologic phenomenon (plate techtonics) creating a presure pulse = "act of god". I'm sure all those poor bastards in 1989 in California crushed by the freeway colapsing after a massive earth quake deserved it as well.

[ January 04, 2005, 23:06: Message edited by: c-man ]

Amer
January 4th, 2005, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:
I know Iam going to get NAILED for this, but, isnt Thailand the place where people fly into from all over the world to have sex with 10 year-old children ? Iam sure they have a pretty healthy
herion market also, O yea, you can also get cooked dog to eat while your having sex with that 10 year-old, O yea they also have rampant AIDS epedemic going on, not to mention that the majority of the population is heavy Islamic,

I believe in helping people who are down, just that Thailand is a very nasty place. Man where did you get your facts from, having lived there for a few yrs it is not majority Islam!!!!!

Religions:
Buddhism 95%, Muslim 3.8%, Christianity 0.5%, Hinduism 0.1%, other 0.6%

As far as the prostitution goes yes it does exist, Ironically 20/20 caught several American "business men" soliciting young children....Enuff said The MAJORITY of women and children you are speaking of come from Burma, Laos and Cambodia not Thailand.

Furthermore check your facts, Costa Rica is now considered "The new sex tourism destination" in our own back yard!!!!! And of course don't forget the huge increase in prostitution in Eastern Europe ever since the Soviet economy collapsed.

"500,000 women from Central and Eastern Europe are in prostitution in European Union nations. (Roland-Pierre Paringaux, "Prostitution Takes a Turn for the West," Le Monde, 24 May 1998)

Since the fall of the Soviet bloc and the instillation of democracy, the sex industry in the Central and Eastern European Countries is booming. ("Trafficking of Women to the European Union: Characterisitics, Trends and Policy Issues," European Conference on Trafficking in Women, (June 1996), IOM, 7 May 1996)"

Regarding your comments on eating dogs &lt;sigh&gt;.....Well I don't EVER recal seeing it on the menu.

Tommy
January 4th, 2005, 11:22 PM
I'm a little confused. I thought God sent his son to die on the cross for the sins of ALL mankind and put an end to judgment based on works and the law, and brought us into the age of Grace. Jesus in his ministry seemed to be very concerned with the poor, the prostitutes, and the hopeless. I believe God is in control of the world but don't buy into the notion that He is in the business of causing all the misery in the world. Simply put, it is my understanding that when Adam disobeyed God sin became a fact of life and with it all the suffering of being human came into existance. Compassion by God brought Jesus Christ into the world to redeem all of us, because there aren't any perfect people. When I look at this tragedy I can't even begin to comprehend how much pain so many people are going through. I often think of how blessed I have been to live where I do, and have the choices I have. I was happy to send something because there isn't really much else you can do to express your sympathy for their hardship. My .02 cents.

Amer
January 4th, 2005, 11:34 PM
Here's organized religion for ya......And yes I am aware this is not indicative of the majority however it is still asinine especially in this day and age.

http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/westboro_tsunami_statement_1230.php

When news of the Indian Ocean tsunami broke I predicted to my wife that within a week we would be hearing some fundamental Christian group claim this disaster was the fault of either abortionists or gays. I was being incredibly sarcastic when I said that (something I do when I am not blogging or working) and did not actually think that would happen. Well, what do you know - my sarcasm leads the way again.

It took less than a week, but apparently there is a group of American Baptists who are rejoicing that over 2000 vacationing Swedish gays may have perished in the tidal wave. http://rawstory.rawprint.com/1204/westboro_tsunami_statement_1230.php

I know this church is not reflective of other Christian churches, but until the rest of you church goers take a stand and publicly ostracize this group, you are no better than they are. Until you do that, the rest of the reality based community must conclude that you implicitly agree with the views of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas. They can be found here: http://www.godhatesfags.com/

They make some interesting claims. Only God’s chosen ones have the ability to believe. Jesus came to save them and no on else. They are also unnaturally obsessed with the idea of sodomy.

To be honest, I was expecting either Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson to be the ones to make the most asinine tsunami retribution statement. The Westboro Baptists caught me off guard. But then again, it still hasn’t been a full week since the tidal wave hit, has it? Here is a quick review of what the Christian Right is doing in response to this disaster (or should I say lack of response?) http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Dec2004/Berkowitz1230.htm

As I said yesterday, there comes a time to either put up or shut up. We all know the Christian Right can talk the talk. But with each passing hour it is becoming more evident that they are too self serving to walk the walk.

Hood Ornament
January 4th, 2005, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Chuck C:


And to those who thought my earlier posts about children in Asia being sold as sex toys was bullsh*t , I think I am owed a appology. Not a single person questioned you about the child sex trade issue and you fukin know it, if not then you got to be dumber then a box of rocks. How about your friggen claim about Thailand being the majority Islamic. Huh, well, you want somone to apologize for calling you out on that one?

Vee4Rider
January 5th, 2005, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by Amer:
As I said yesterday, there comes a time to either put up or shut up. We all know the Christian Right can talk the talk. But with each passing hour it is becoming more evident that they are too self serving to walk the walk. Here is only 1 of thousands of examples of the "Christian Right" (http://www.samaritanspurse.org/index.asp?section=Projects&page=projects_news_122704.txt) putting up, talking & walking......

Hood Ornament
January 5th, 2005, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Albie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jen Whalen:

I believe everything happens for a reason. I'm just curious about this statement. I'm an ex Catholic so you'll have to bare with me for a minute. I'm not trying to corner you or make a point, just want to know the answer.

Is there scripture that goes into this? Or is this just more of a feeling you have. The thing is, I've always had pretty much the opposite feeling. I feel that very little happens for a reason. I feel that almost everything happens pretty much randomly and by accident. At least it sure explains things more easily then the "God planned it that way explanation." </font>[/QUOTE]Albie:

I believe by placing my day to day worries, problems, fears, wishes, requirements, etc in God's hands. Sure takes the burden off of my shoulders as to wondering why things happen good or bad.

It says in Matthew chaper 6 verses 25-34 to not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink...then goes on to say how the smallest birds are provided for, they eat, they rest. With Man being God's greatest creation I believe he will provide. The final line in that passage is...Do not worry about tommorow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. -- I love that.

So I just put my faith, beliefs in God and He takes care of the rest. I like the idea of the creator of all things being in charge of lil ole me.

It's also great in times of trial. When things go wrong..
God did it!!....when things go right...Praise God!!
Just have to remember to give credit where it is due. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Ahhh, you forgot that I'm ex Catholic, they don't do the New Testament. I read those verses though and well, I still don't see how that pertains to everything having a reason and God planning it out that way. Of course the first couple verses in the next chapter might have some intrest for Chuck.

CalamariKid
January 5th, 2005, 05:35 AM
It would be nice if there were a simple, logical, rational explanation for everything that happens in this world, but of course there is not. Too blame God or god or whoever on this event is pointless. To praise H/him is, well, sad and sick.

Of course there are bad people in Thailand, there are bad people everywhere. Are there people who visit there for 'sex tours'? Yes. The same with Mexico, Amersterdam, Russia, the Philippines, Indonesia, you name it. Anyplace where there are desperate people seeking to survive. Do these governments support this trade? Mainly no, especially when it comes to children. Thailand as with other Asian countries vigorously prosecutes and punishes foreigners engaging in child prostitution.

To focus on this seedy side of Thailand completely misses the point. Even if that was all there was to the story, no one did any thing to 'deserve' this disaster. However, Thailand is not some seedy armpit of Asia. It is a beautiful country rich in culture and tradition visited by tourists from around the world, tourists with nothing more on their agendas than to see the sights, relax on the beaches and appreciate the beauty of this country. These tourists, not that it should matter, vastly, vastly, outnumber those who travel for the sex trade.

I really am embarrassed at being an American by some of the responses I have read here, responses that seem to indicate that somehow these people deserved to die. Either because of their morals, their religious beliefs, or whatever. If that is the case, then God help us all. Lord knows I should have been taken from this planet a long, long time ago if we are judged in such a harsh manner. Certainly sooner than children playing on a beach or helping their fathers bring in the morning catch from the sea.

Sometimes I think I wish I knew the 'reason' things like this happen. We humans need a reason, need to make sense of tragedy, more so the closer it hits to home. But for me and I am sure most others, no reason can ever be found. It is the nature of our Human condition. The nature of life, of living on a planet we pretend or hope to understand, but continues to awe, amaze and terrify us.

What events like this reinforce in me is the idea that nothing, nothing can be taken for granted, that Life is a precious gift that needs to be enjoyed, savored, and respected. Events like this give me hope in humanity, seeing people from around the world pour manpower, money, resources of every kind into an effort to help save those we can, clear away the rubble and rebuild. People who refuse to be blinded by ignorance, intolerance, or hatred. Maybe 200,000 have been killed, but more than ten times that number have lost their homes, their businesses, any means of sustaining or supporting themselves. They not only face the grief of having lost loved ones but the prospect of surviving in a decimated landscape, both physical and economic. These are the people I think of.

JustJenW
January 5th, 2005, 06:57 AM
I Never Said These People Deserved To Die.
I Never Said ANYONE deserved it.

God knows how we are all going to die whether it be taking a corner too fast or being shattered by an earthquake.

I was mearly posting my view of what a powerful event this was and am not a fanatic of some group. Those of you who know me know that.

I base my life on faith. I base my hope on that God has a reason for everything that happens. Whether it be a geologic disaster or the birth a child.

Just sticking to my faith.

As for the New Testament, I 'll stay basic.
In the beginning..God Created the heavens and the Earth. So, I will once again place my life with the Creator of the Earth and Heavens. Gensis Ch. 1.

JustJenW
January 5th, 2005, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Albie:
Ahhh, you forgot that I'm ex Catholic, they don't do the New Testament. [/QB][/QUOTE]

From what I understand Catholics DO do the New Testament. Specifically they pray to Saints. Regular ole Christians such as myself, just pray directly to God and Jesus directly. Sort of cut out the middle man. I am under the impression that Jewish people are the ones who don't believe in the New Testament and are still waiting for the Son of God.

AmbeR1
January 5th, 2005, 07:56 AM
Well, I certainly didn't expect this thread to turn into one of the most disgusting displays of selfishness, sterotypes, and misguided spirituality that I have ever witnessed. :mad:

I don't give a crap if these people are all American-hating mutants that canniballize their children. The fact is that 100% of them were innocent people trying to LIVE--and all the people of the world have this right. Even the people whose lifestyles you don't agree with.

They hardly have food, clothing, housing, or medical care.

It is time to take a look around the room you are sitting in right now and realize what you have--and to help your fellow humans.

I thought the scripture said to help all fellow men and enemies in need. :confused:

JustJenW
January 5th, 2005, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by AmbeR1:
Well, I certainly didn't expect this thread to turn into one of the most disgusting displays of selfishness, sterotypes, and misguided spirituality that I have ever witnessed. :mad:

I don't give a crap if these people are all American-hating mutants that canniballize their children. The fact is that 100% of them were innocent people trying to LIVE--and all the people of the world have this right. Even the people whose lifestyles you don't agree with.

They hardly have food, clothing, housing, or medical care.

It is time to take a look around the room you are sitting in right now and realize what you have--and to help your fellow humans.

I thought the scripture said to help all fellow men and enemies in need. :confused: These victims are getting the help they need. Not only from our country but others as well. I applaud all those who are over there helping and doing their part.

I was initally pointing out the fact that India's government was initally blocking aid. Dosen't anyone remember Mogadishu and the war lord who controlled all the food, supplies, etc? When their people were starving?? Especially when food was being distributed by the US- the supporters of the warlord would intercept the supplies. Then the horrible loss that was suffered byt the US because of us helping out by sending our men to that area. I was envisioning that happening with any help that was being sent.

I am not a selfish person. Yes, I pray for my enemies as I do my friends. I go the extra mile for my enemy, just ask my ex-husband.

I don't have a perfect life and am not sitting here in my nice clean house just being judgemental. Again, for those who know me, know I deeply care and am a compassionate person. I personally don't feel comfortable giving my money to some "orgainization" who may or may not use it as I would like.

As to explaining this to all the people who have been effected by this event, I am not qualified. I would just direct them to ask the Lord themselves, as that is what I do.

[ January 05, 2005, 08:32: Message edited by: Jen Whalen ]

Lance Youts
January 5th, 2005, 08:45 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
[QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by AmbeR1:
[qb] I personally don't feel comfortable giving my money to some "orgainization" who may or may not use it as I would like.


Do you pay taxes? smile.gif

Whitelightning
January 5th, 2005, 08:49 AM
Hell, to think I was even considering voicing a simple opinion here, forget it. :rolleyes:
read it, accept it, dont accept it..pretty simple.
If yours is different, post it but no need to Gouge Eyes doing it. :rolleyes:
I am sure noone on here (BBS) meant any disrespect, maybe possibly misinformed sure, but but meant no disrespect (IMHO). Isn't it their right to their opinion :confused:
State yours...TSBA community here, lets try to keep it that way people. smile.gif
now back to my work... tongue.gif

JustJenW
January 5th, 2005, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Lance Youts:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
[QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by AmbeR1:
[qb] I personally don't feel comfortable giving my money to some "orgainization" who may or may not use it as I would like.


Do you pay taxes? smile.gif Why, yes I do. That's why I originally said I'd leave it up to George W to include me on the 350 million that is being sent by our taxes.

Again, I have a personal choice to donate to a charity or not in this situation. I personally chose not to since I feel my losy 50 bucks I'd send wouldn't compare to the millions already being sent not only by the US but other countries as well.

What I would really like to do, is help out, hands on. Short of hoping the next boat over, any one have a suggestion for that?

Gerry
January 5th, 2005, 09:10 AM
Surely the important point in all this is that irrespective of you views on the nations, people or religions involved, would it be that difficult to forgo your morning Starbucks (or whatever you class as a luxury item) and use that money to try and help? It's an inconsequential event in your day and it could contribute to saving a life somewhere. That's just got to be worth the sacrific hasn't it? With few exceptions, everyones crappiest day doesn't even come close to what a lot of people will be going through right now.

JustJenW
January 5th, 2005, 09:22 AM
Census 2000 was the largest census in the history of the United States, counting 281 million people.

checked my facts (http://factfinder.census.gov/)

So does this mean Uncle Sam sent over a million dollars from each person?
I think that qualifies of "I gave at the office." ;)

RideRed
January 5th, 2005, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Albie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jen Whalen:

I believe everything happens for a reason. I'm just curious about this statement. I'm an ex Catholic so you'll have to bare with me for a minute. I'm not trying to corner you or make a point, just want to know the answer.

Is there scripture that goes into this? Or is this just more of a feeling you have. The thing is, I've always had pretty much the opposite feeling. I feel that very little happens for a reason. I feel that almost everything happens pretty much randomly and by accident. At least it sure explains things more easily then the "God planned it that way explanation." </font>[/QUOTE]Albie,

Glad you asked actually... this question is heard repeatedly by Christians. The subject is actually part of a series of questions and answers written down even early in New Testament history after Christ's death by several of the Apostles, as well as modern day authors. Some earlier authors were even crucified for their profession of faith and belief that "everything happens for a reason." Here's a few links I found very helpful for me on the subject...

Why Bad Things Happen to Good People (http://www.deoomnisgloria.com/mt/archives/000163.html)

Do Natural Disasters Negate Divine Benevolence? (http://www.apologeticspress.org/modules.php?name=Read&itemid=2207&cat=12) (see the part 1/2 way down the page on Natural Disasters)

As to the tradgedy of the tsumani, I am deeply saddened and at a loss for words to describe how I feel about the staggering loss of life in the Indian Ocean region. As a man, I wonder to myself "who deserved that??!", but as a Christian, I know in my heart the suffering, in all its forms, is a necessity in order to understand what Christ went through for us, and to bring us closer to him. If life was without suffering, there would be no reason to turn to Him. I believe we all suffer due to the ultimate gift of free will God gave us in the Garden, and Adam's choice to disregard God that brought suffering into our world. I also believe it's more than just pain we endure for no reason. It forces us to grow in our spiritual maturity, and prepares us for our salvation so that we may say with Paul when our heart turns toward God, “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me;” (Gal 2:20)

Brian

RideRed
January 5th, 2005, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Charles Nevle:

Life is a precious gift that needs to be enjoyed, savored, and respected.A gift from who or where? Remember, gifts are given. If they are given, they are given by someone or something. Not a flame at all, but I'm curious about this statement. smile.gif

RideRed
January 5th, 2005, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
Census 2000 was the largest census in the history of the United States, counting 281 million people.

checked my facts (http://factfinder.census.gov/)

So does this mean Uncle Sam sent over a million dollars from each person?
I think that qualifies of "I gave at the office." ;) Ahh.. no honey.. that would mean we gave 281 trillion (million times million?). Your math means we all technically gave a little over $1 each. Check your math hon. smile.gif

JustJenW
January 5th, 2005, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Brian Whalen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
Census 2000 was the largest census in the history of the United States, counting 281 million people.

checked my facts (http://factfinder.census.gov/)

So does this mean Uncle Sam sent over a million dollars from each person?
I think that qualifies of "I gave at the office." ;) Ahh.. no honey.. that would mean we gave 281 trillion (million times million?). Your math means we all technically gave a little over $1 each. Check your math hon. smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]That's my fuzzy math I think I've heard it called? :D Anyway, sorry about the blunder. I still think 350 million is alot of cash. smile.gif

[ January 05, 2005, 09:54: Message edited by: Jen Whalen ]

929er
January 5th, 2005, 10:02 AM
There's a very simple, factual reason why this event occurred. All you have to is listen. Choose who you listen to. I prefer NOAA.

As far as Chucks comments, I believe it's beating a dead horse now perhaps he needs to take a step back and read his comments outside the box. The replies have been brutal, but needed.

Greg Sampson
January 5th, 2005, 11:31 AM
This has all gotten very interesting. The following 1,434 words are my opinion.

As I understand it, Jen's way of rationalizing these events was not intended as any type of condemnation of the civilization, simply her way of explaining (to herself) why this terrible tragedy has happened. And, to be honest, that is fine. For my own reasons, I do not agree with it, but I understand and respect her opinion just the same.

There was a comment made about the FCC and its role in censoring the media. I cannot even begin to tell you how absurd and misguided I find the given example:
If the govt, didn't regulate you could buy child porn at the local 7-11. God forbid channel 4 would probably start its daily news with some just to get higher ratings for one day, for the shock value.

1) Buying child porn at 7-11. Obviously, simply having the government regulate a type of media out of public existence does not guarantee that people do not want to partake in it. There are people, many of them unfortunately, in America who still desire to see child pornography. Just because you cannot find it at 7-11 does not mean that it is not still readily produced, manufactured and made available. What about all the other porn at 7-11? Are you ok with all the Barely 18, Fetish, Hardcore and Sodomy magazines available to the public? Do you think that these other forms of pornographic media as being “regulated” and therefore condoned by the US Government? Interesting.

2) You are suggesting that the general public wants to see child pornography and will therefore tune in to the station, boosting ratings, for the expressed purpose of seeing this filth. Perhaps what you meant was that a TV station would air a program, or portion of a program, with the expressed intent of shocking viewers without actually promoting the acts portrayed? This would make more sense… especially because it is already being done on a regular basis, which makes this a moot point.

Last night I was watching The Amazing Race, the only TV show I actually make an effort to see, and in my opinion, the only “reality show” worth watching, when I saw a commercial for an upcoming “reality show”. It was called The Will and is based around what appears to be a family purportedly engrossed in a “real life dispute” over the will of a deceased loved one. The commercial portrayed every possible stereotype of a family member that could be arguing over who gets the money in the will. There’s the bratty young guy, the snobby chic, the angry wife, the estranged lover, the 20-something blonde bombshell wife… and they are supposedly living out their feud on TV.
Obviously, none of this is truly “real” and it is all done for the expressed purpose of shocking a few people into watching the show and, hopefully, boosting ratings. Add to this nearly every show on the Fox network and “shock TV” is certainly not a new idea.

3) Once again, if channel 4 wants to publish photos or footage of bloated, decaying bodies washing up in the Indian Ocean, they can do it. However, they also have a responsibility to what they see as their viewing public and therefore choose not to do so because it will cause a certain amount of unrest within the public and will presumably hurt their standing in the public eye. Don’t believe me? What about the whole “wardrobe malfunction” at the Superbowl? It is not as though people were calling in and asking for more, they were writing, calling and protesting because they were upset about what they and their children saw during what they thought was a family-oriented television event. Networks do all kinds of things for ratings, but they are also smart enough not to completely alienate their viewers.
Again, I share a vastly different personal opinion on these matters, but the examples do further my point.

I SWEAR I CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP, CHECK YOUR NEWS SOURCE.
Please provide your own news sources. If you want to make claims like this, please back them up with factual references. I am not saying you lied; I simply have not seen or heard this in the media.

…I have a SERIOUS problem of my tax dollars being sent to such a IMMORAL government that condones such actions…
I believe you have accepted the "US is a moral hero, spreading freedom and good cheer around the world" propaganda hook, line and sinker.
I cannot agree more, nor could I ever hope to say it any better. Thank you.

Here is only 1 of thousands of examples of the "Christian Right" putting up, talking & walking......
Excellent! It pleases me to see a group doing what it can to bring fresh water and supplies to people who are in desperate need of relief. My only beef is when a group feels the need to begin converting the population to Christianity instead of simply understanding that there is not only one way to worship, pray or find salvation. There’s nothing wrong with any religion, be it Islam, Buddhism, Taoist, Christianity, Judaism, etc. so long as it does not purport to infringe on the freedoms and rights of others.

…but as a Christian, I know in my heart the suffering, in all its forms, is a necessity in order to understand what Christ went through for us, and to bring us closer to him..
This bothers me because what you are saying, in effect, is that the only people who will learn anything from this event are Christians. What about the fact that 90% of the region is Buddhist and does not share your belief in Christ as a savior? Have 155,000+ non-believers been sacrificed for the benefit of Christianity? That would be arrogant, and I do not think you are an arrogant person, so I must be misinterpreting this statement.

…that Life is a precious gift that needs to be enjoyed, savored, and respected. …seeing people from around the world pour manpower, money, resources of every kind into an effort to help save those we can... People who refuse to be blinded by ignorance, intolerance, or hatred.
Again, I cannot agree more. And in respect to Brian’s question, I do not see life as a “gift from God” (seeing as how I do not think there is one) so much as a chance to conduct one’s life in the best possible manner. By best possible manner, I, personally, am adhering to my own standard of morals & ethics, and uphold my friends and family to the same standards. Because everyone has their own standard of actions, I attempt not to judge anyone, but simply choose to spend my time and share my friendship with people who demonstrate similar ideals. What you do is your business, and yours alone, and it is my choice whether or not to associate with you.

What gets me is this: Our (generalization) impression of each country around the world seems to stem from what we think we know about their government, and not what we know about their people. More than a few of us have expressed that we would not want to support a corrupt government, or that we do not want to support a country whose government supports certain ideas and practices. Has it not occurred to you that the government is not representative of the people of the country? George W. Bush DOES NOT in any way represent my feelings about a variety of issues including the war, foreign policy, domestic policy, the environment or woman’s rights. However, because GWB is the head of the country I happen to inhabit, his views and those of our elected government are imposed on me as a citizen of what I otherwise see as a fine nation.

Now, before you attempt to make the argument that since he, or any other official, is elected to office and therefore represents the majority of the people, consider that the last two Presidential elections were closer than ever and show an obvious division in the nation. Also consider that public elections such that we have in the United States, are not exactly a regular practice in every nation of the world, and in much the same way that GWB does not represent many people here, elected officials in Germany, France, Russia, etc. do not represent the opinions and actions of everyone in those countries either.

In the same vane it is clear that people of various religions cannot simply be judged as right or wrong, militant or peaceful. I’m truly getting sick and tired of hearing people talk about Muslims as being an evil group of people who are hell bent on the destruction of America and all other Western civilization. Obviously, there are people in the world who speak very loudly and carry very large stick who DO feel this way and have devoted their lives to such ideals. However, the majority of these people are as peaceful as sheep and no different from the rest of us. I’m no expert but Buddhism could be misconstrued and seen in the same way. Consider that the primary goal of Buddhism, as I understand it, is to do away with all material possessions and find peace and oneness with nature within one’s self. I don’t think it would be going out on a limb to think that a militant, erratic group of Buddhists could see Western materialism as a threat to their credo and attack us as a result. This also goes for extreme examples of Christianity who hole themselves up in parts of the country in an effort to avoid contact with government regulation.

Of course, this is just my opinion. Take it for what you will.

Inlaw1
January 5th, 2005, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
I was initally pointing out the fact that India's government was initally blocking aid.I think you may of inadvertently made a blanket statement. India is only blocking aid from outside agencies to a small group of islands off the India coast in order to protect the indigenous people from outside influence. Blocking access is apparently something the Government has done for many years. It does not mean they aren't getting aid, but I can understand they way our media reports events it could very well of come across as just that... the Government of India is blocking aid.

RideRed
January 5th, 2005, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Greg Sampson:
…but as a Christian, I know in my heart the suffering, in all its forms, is a necessity in order to understand what Christ went through for us, and to bring us closer to him..
This bothers me because what you are saying, in effect, is that the only people who will learn anything from this event are Christians. What about the fact that 90% of the region is Buddhist and does not share your belief in Christ as a savior? Have 155,000+ non-believers been sacrificed for the benefit of Christianity? That would be arrogant, and I do not think you are an arrogant person, so I must be misinterpreting this statement. Greg,

Thanks for your wonderful response. It's very well written, and thought out. I would like to reply without causing more friction, so please forgive me if this sounds like a defense of my original position. smile.gif

I stated I believe suffering of this magnitude exists not by chance, or becuase it's "just some random geological event" that killed hundreds of thousands recently. I believe all tradgedies, and all suffering at it's root is due to man's original sin with God, and it's resulting flawed and dangerous world we now live in. I believe God exists, and there is a plan for us all. In my world view, there is no luck.

Now, PLEASE don't assign any moral implication in that statement. I am in no way saying that these people deserved to die, or that God intended for them to die. I don't believe God has anything to do with our suffering. Sin (original) is the source of pain, not God. In fact, thousands have pitched in to help where they can, putting aside differences and bringing the world comminuty and it's people together to help. Anyone who is helping the victims of this disaster, despite what they believe religiously, are living examples of Christ's love. As to suffering, what I meant to say was pain and loss in the world are often heated under stress in the crucible of the soul of many who survive, as well as those who are witness. Feelings of loss, frustration, anger, sadness and grief are often so powerful in these people that they open one's heart to God. So often we act like children, content to think we are in control of our lives and need no help or guidance. I believe God is patient in these times, but he is still there for us when we cry out "why?".

Finally, I don't see these victims as sacrifies for Christianity or a lesson from God. But I do feel this when I think about their deaths: Prepare yourself for His return! How awful it would in my opinion, to die without knowing Christ. What a loss that truly is. Through our Lord's salvation, I believe death isn't the end.. it's a homecoming. If you don't believe in this salvation, it will indeed be very hard for you to relate to my position.

Brian

Greg Sampson
January 5th, 2005, 02:07 PM
Brian - I completely understand what you are saying and in no way do I consider it to be negative. I may not be able to relate to what you feel religiously, but I do think we share some basic standards when it comes to how we live our lives. Thanks for the response!

Hood Ornament
January 5th, 2005, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Jen Whalen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Albie:
Ahhh, you forgot that I'm ex Catholic, they don't do the New Testament. </font>[/QUOTE]From what I understand Catholics DO do the New Testament. Specifically they pray to Saints. Regular ole Christians such as myself, just pray directly to God and Jesus directly. Sort of cut out the middle man. I am under the impression that Jewish people are the ones who don't believe in the New Testament and are still waiting for the Son of God. [/QB][/QUOTE]


Yup, a lot of Protestants are under that misperception that Catholics pray to the saints, and to the Virgin Mary etc., etc.

Greg Sampson
January 5th, 2005, 02:30 PM
The following are videos taken during the tsunami. This might help with perspective.

Video 1 (http://media.big-boys.com/files01/tsunami.wmv)
Video 2 (http://media.big-boys.com/files01/tsunamiasia.wmv)
Video 3 (http://media.big-boys.com/files01/tsunamisri.wmv)

When I think about how much life and money we've wasted in Iraq, and how far the money, man power and resources could have gone here, I feel ill. Why is it that we must be so caught up in politics, war and other self-serving activities?

-=sean)=-
January 5th, 2005, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Greg Sampson:
Why is it that we must be so caught up in politics, war and other self-serving activities? Because fighting nature is a losing proposition and it's not nearly as glamorous as going after "the bad guys". ;)

Rlhay2
January 5th, 2005, 03:06 PM
and it's not nearly as glamorous as going after "the bad guys". ;) Nor as profitable.
--
RH II

Vee4Rider
January 5th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by -=sean)=-:
Because fighting nature is a losing proposition and it's not nearly as glamorous as going after "the bad guys". ;) Especially when ONE country's "bad guys" killed several hundred thousand people & buried them in mass graves.

We need to hire Mother Nature to take care of the "bad guys".....

geckosvs
January 5th, 2005, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Greg Sampson:

3) Once again, if channel 4 wants to publish photos or footage of bloated, decaying bodies washing up in the Indian Ocean, they can do it. However, they also have a responsibility to what they see as their viewing public and therefore choose not to do so because it will cause a certain amount of unrest within the public and will presumably hurt their standing in the public eye. Don’t believe me? What about the whole “wardrobe malfunction” at the Superbowl?This reminds me of when The Dallas Morning News published a picture of murdered Mexican President Colosio, face down in a pool of blood on the front page. I bet it was a tough call for the news editor and staff. But many in the public were offended and wrote in to tell about it.

If the DMN published the picture at the beginning of this thread, I bet a similar outcry would ensue. The irony is that though this is a much more "realistic" photo of the disaster, most Americans can't stomach it. We like our bubble.

Hood Ornament
January 5th, 2005, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Brian Whalen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Albie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jen Whalen:

I believe everything happens for a reason. I'm just curious about this statement. I'm an ex Catholic so you'll have to bare with me for a minute. I'm not trying to corner you or make a point, just want to know the answer.

Is there scripture that goes into this? Or is this just more of a feeling you have. The thing is, I've always had pretty much the opposite feeling. I feel that very little happens for a reason. I feel that almost everything happens pretty much randomly and by accident. At least it sure explains things more easily then the "God planned it that way explanation." </font>[/QUOTE]Albie,

Glad you asked actually... this question is heard repeatedly by Christians. The subject is actually part of a series of questions and answers written down even early in New Testament history after Christ's death by several of the Apostles, as well as modern day authors. Some earlier authors were even crucified for their profession of faith and belief that "everything happens for a reason." Here's a few links I found very helpful for me on the subject...

Why Bad Things Happen to Good People (http://www.deoomnisgloria.com/mt/archives/000163.html)

Do Natural Disasters Negate Divine Benevolence? (http://www.apologeticspress.org/modules.php?name=Read&itemid=2207&cat=12) (see the part 1/2 way down the page on Natural Disasters)

As to the tradgedy of the tsumani, I am deeply saddened and at a loss for words to describe how I feel about the staggering loss of life in the Indian Ocean region. As a man, I wonder to myself "who deserved that??!", but as a Christian, I know in my heart the suffering, in all its forms, is a necessity in order to understand what Christ went through for us, and to bring us closer to him. If life was without suffering, there would be no reason to turn to Him. I believe we all suffer due to the ultimate gift of free will God gave us in the Garden, and Adam's choice to disregard God that brought suffering into our world. I also believe it's more than just pain we endure for no reason. It forces us to grow in our spiritual maturity, and prepares us for our salvation so that we may say with Paul when our heart turns toward God, “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me;” (Gal 2:20)

Brian </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for the links Brian, I'll have to spend some time looking through them. While I'm not religous these days, I do enjoy reading. BTW, I notice both those sites are Catholic.

Brad Felmey
January 5th, 2005, 05:04 PM
Thus sayeth Spammy:
There's nothing wrong with any religion, be it Islam, Buddhism, Taoist, Christianity, Judaism, etc. so long as it does not purport to infringe on the freedoms and rights of others.

Depending upon your slavishness to doctrine, I can tell you that Islam, Judaism and Christianity all have negative provisions for non-believers in their holy texts.

SE955i
January 6th, 2005, 01:11 PM
Greg

I was responding to this comment and response:


Originally posted by AmbeR1:
Our government "protects us" from images that show the true tragedy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Horsefeathers.

--------------------
Brad Felmey
I'm sorry you don't think my response illustrated the point accurately, but please don't but words in my mouth. Here goes a second attempt.

From the FCC Website:
The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television , wire (includes Internet to a degree; “CAN-SPAM
Controlling the Assault of Non-Solicited Pornography and Marketing Act of 2003" and "CHILDREN’S INTERNET PROTECTION ACT"), satellite and cable. The FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. possessions.

Brad brought up the point that the FCC does not regulate print. I did not know that the FCC did not regulate print media, but my point is the same.

I think this is how it works; public opinion gives rise for the need to regulate. So in theory the FCC should be regulating at the level of the majority public opinion. If a particular print media would say start abusing their authority to show images with harsh content. I would think that at some point the FCC would step in. Further more the FCC provides our country with a set of rules that if not directly then indirectly affect the ideals and values of the pulbic and all forms of media through what is called the ripple effect. (American films and television are viewed all over the world, everyday)


Main Entry: ripple effect
Function: noun
: a spreading, pervasive, and usually unintentional effect or influence &lt;the automotive industry has a ripple effect on many other industries&gt; As far as Child porn or prostition goes, I apologies for using that as an example. It was being used already in other posts in this thread, so I guess I was thinking about that topic.

Unfortunately these hideous crimes are rampant in the USA and apparently all over the world.

I made the mistake of clicking on a porn link once that took me to a child porn site. I looked at the images on the home page and was damaged by what I saw.

I guess my point was that just because one part of the world is more openly known for child abuse that doesn't mean that everyone in that part of the world is like that, and to illustrate that I was trying to show that if there were no laws against child abuse in this country that it would probably be readily available to the US public for profit. So which is worse a country that is covert or overt about its child abuse problems, and why should that have anything to do with donating funds to a charity in order to help other humans in need.

Side notes. The FCC is not perfect as nothing is. They obviously can't review ever image and ever word that is written.

YZF Cathy
January 6th, 2005, 03:45 PM
I think Charles Nevle took the words right out of my mouth, more eliquently of course but accurately nonetheless.

We can all be quite impassionate at times can't we! One of the many things I strive for as I grow is tolerance and understanding of others. Sometimes a struggle, but always a goal.

ST4s
January 10th, 2005, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Greg Sampson:
The following are videos taken during the tsunami. This might help with perspective.

Video 1 (http://media.big-boys.com/files01/tsunami.wmv)
Video 2 (http://media.big-boys.com/files01/tsunamiasia.wmv)
Video 3 (http://media.big-boys.com/files01/tsunamisri.wmv)

When I think about how much life and money we've wasted in Iraq, and how far the money, man power and resources could have gone here, I feel ill. Why is it that we must be so caught up in politics, war and other self-serving activities? I'll take this one: To help save mankind from the horrors of an insane megalomaniac whose regime murdered thousands of innocent men, women, and children. I don't think we are being self-serving Greg. I think we are being supremely altruistic by sacrificing for those in another part of the world that the rest of the world would have let suffer to this day. We stated plainly where we stood, and with resolve acted on our words, while the world's nations stood idly by, spouting pathetic rhetoric while the Iraqi people suffered and died. Our president took the hard road as well. It would have been much easier for him to go along with those who advocated even more efforts at diplomacy. By now we would no doubt be up to "U.N. Resolution #157 Calling for the Immediate Insertion of Weapons Inspectors into Iraq", or somesuch.

Greg Sampson
January 11th, 2005, 12:28 PM
I'm disappointed at the manner in which we got there (Iraq) though. Remember, it all started as the "War on Terrorism" in Afghanistan but when that faltered and we had little to show the public for it, they moved the war to Iraq because of the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" that, so far as I have seen from the British and American internal investigations, never actually existed.

Also, as I understand it, there is genocide occuring in other parts of the world, but we've had little to do with those country's problems. I'm lacking specific information but I believe Bosnia-Herzogovenia (sp), Sri Lanka (of all places) and several African nations have been struggling with civil wars and genocide for a few decades, but we have not stepped in to police those countries.

I know it is politics and it is economics, but it still bothers me... a little bit too much like 1984.

Brad Felmey
January 11th, 2005, 12:58 PM
Greg, of all people I wouldn't expect poorly-thought-out posts from you.

Every major intelligence service (including those against us in this war) had the same conclusion. It was a reasonable expectation at the time. Investigations have NOT concluded that the weapons didn't exist, opinions/rantings from the do-nothing UN notwithstanding. In fact, evidence of banned weapons has been found here and there (warheads with traces of chemical agents).

As for choosing Iraq over, say, Sri Lanka, I'm surprised I even need to say this, but first priority for American armed forces is protecting America. Iraq was a much larger threat than the other nations you mentioned. So are Iran and North Korea, for that matter, but logistically they are a different proposition than Iraq. You have to start somewhere.

Greg Sampson
January 12th, 2005, 08:49 AM
Yeah, I understand. Somedays I'm on, somedays I'm off.

Donny
January 12th, 2005, 01:36 PM
One thing we are all guilty of (me included) is wanting to talk, and showing little interest in listening. We glory in our own self-importance and information we have as 'ours'. We cling to religious dogma and become culturally 'aware' of Church A, or Church B, or even Church C and thus identify with it. Once identifying is completed, then we shut down...we cease listening, is this what is best for mankind? Disasters happen. Disasters are occassionally made to happen by sick minded warped people. The FCC might as well be a contemporary appendage of The Werhmacht! For the FCC to 'protect' us from illicit material sounds similar to citizens wrapping themselfs in a US flag shouting "I'm Free, I'm Free". I have learned that collective thinking we are a 'free' people is fantasy thinking. We need to look at what we don't have...when we forget what we don't have and are settling for what we have then we will truly be sheep ready to do anything at the behest of our masters; Big Brother.