View Full Version : What to do about Newbies?

August 26th, 2002, 09:27 AM
I am a newbie to the TSBA myself so please lend a hand sorting out my thoughts. (Like yall need an invitation to jump my ***).

The TSBA is not intended to be a rider training school. We are a group of semi-like minded riders who get together and share each otherís company and good riding. Everyone is supposed to know how to ride and stay within their personal limits. Even snails like me are tolerated as long as I bring flat repair stuff and water.

This said what do we do about newbies? Of course no one is born knowing everything, not even Louis. ;) How do we bring along someone new to the group without unduly restricting the pace of more experienced riders? Even more basic is should we encourage more riders to join the group? I am not claiming to have the answers but the question is important.

Randyís point of view:
We run a pretty relaxed ship but do have riderís meetings. This meeting should consist of:
1. Where we are going
2. Who is in the group
3. Gear/bike safety issues (bike in good shape, rider with proper gear)
4. Newbie indoctrination

1. Where we are going Ė we donít need no stinking maps but give everyone a general idea of where we are going, where the gas/rest stops will be, estimated time in transit. Make sure one person waits at a turn until the next rider appears. Basic stuff.

2. Who is in the group. I know, Randy is on the soap box again. While DNA testing is not necessary a rider roster would be nice in case someone crashes. I am working on it now. Once you have given me the information Iíll type it in a spreadsheet and all you have to do is check off your name if you are riding that day. Crashing sucks, not knowing who you are working on or how to contact their significant others REALLY SUCKS. Iíll get off my fat *** and move on this one. Please tolerate my requests for information.

3. Safety issues. This one is more difficult. When is a tire too worn to be safe? What gear is required to go on the group ride? Geez, telling someone what level of risk is acceptable is a tough nut.

The most recent SMR is a good example. One passenger was wearing shorts. Do we turn them away or ride their *** and make certain long pants are worn next time? My thinking is to exert strong peer pressure to ensure they bring their gear up to speed. But there has to be a minimum standard. Would we let the classic squid come along? I.e. no helmet, shorts, tank top and flip-flops. I would say no.

4. Newbie Indoctrination. Another tough one. We are not a training organization but do have to impart our riding ethics to new comers.

My thoughts are to purposely keep new riders at the back of the group. They are told not to pass a certain rider. This rider will know the route and set a modest pace. (except for knowing the route it sounds like my snail ***).

The down side is that this would likely create two groups. It would allow the more experienced riders to enjoy the ride and not have to wait for a slower group. Just make sure you know who is the last guy in the front group.

We form up at designated gas/rest stops and shoot the breeze and kick tires. At this time adjustment can be made to the groups as necessary.

This way we prevent the newbie from over-amping to keep up with the more experienced riders. Their riding skills can be judge without encouraging them to keep up with more experienced riders.

Other things like squidly behavior in town (wheelies, etc) can be dealt with by peer pressure.

In closing I want to ensure everyone knows I am not saying this is the way it should be. I just want to open a dialog.


Brian Montgomery
August 26th, 2002, 12:02 PM
I am with you on your thought Randy. I think the 2 groups thing would be a great idea. If the ride/group warrants it. There are some that have trouble staying up with the “group”. Like this weekend when we came to the gravel road and waited a while I think it was like 6 or 7 minutes. (We had no idea that your air box was fouling up) I am not complaining but it did cause some concern for me. I was hoping everything was ok. And as it turned out it was. But the real question is this: Who, that knows the routes, is willing to stay with the slower riders? Two weeks ago (My first ride) wasn’t that bad. We managed to keep a good pace and everyone stuck together nicely at least I thought. I feel like I had responsibility for the delay this weekend because I held up the group from the start. Maybe if we had gotten there earlier they could have got the same orientation that I got on my first ride. I think some of them where lost in that respect. As for the “Who is in the group” section, I think that it would be a beneficial idea to have the next of kin sheets. Although I ride with my bud Jason on the CBR900RR every time and he knows who to get in touch with, not everyone has that option and it would be terrible to not know whom to notify in case of a bad situation. As for the shorts and no jacket and gloves deal, I tried to warn them over and over again over breakfast but it was like I was just being an ***. I think the ride for them might have been a sobering experience with the close calls and all. Maybe that is why they left @ Chappel Hill and 290? And if they decide to show up again, I am willing to bet that they will have gear on. That’s if we didn’t scare the crap out of them. I saw the real error here and that was knowing who you bring to the SMR. Make sure you know their riding skills and make sure that they have the minimum safety gear and all of this could have been avoided.

August 26th, 2002, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Brian Montgomery:
Like this weekend when we came to the gravel road and waited a while I think it was like 6 or 7 minutes. (We had no idea that your air box was fouling up) to be strictly accurate, the delay at the gravel road was clearly enhanced by "wrong-way" bain's uncanny sense of direction.

the delay at independence was a result of the bmw self-disassembling throttle body feature...

htown svs
August 26th, 2002, 12:38 PM
Sounds like you are ranting after a stressfull SMR. I am a newbie also and rode with a few of you about a month ago (Chris and Jeff and others). As for a few of your points IMHO:

Concering safety gear I feel it should be mandatory as a club. Membership is optional and you have made it clear on the web site and BBS that riders without minimum safety gear requirements will not be allowed to ride with the group. Stick to your guns.

Maybe as far as role call, have you concidered two membership cards for each person. This way each person gives their second card to a ride leader before riding and gets back their card before leaving home. This makes sure that you also know when riders break free from the group. I know this sounds like a dog tag thing but it is just an idea. This is also a good way to ask every one about there bike maintenance also. You don't have to be pushy but asking will go along ways.

As to newbies, I know you guys preach about riding your own pace but you know as well as I do that peer pressure will make you push a little further than normal. This can be good but can also be uncomfortable for the newbie. On my first SMR if felt very uncomfortable at first but I did push myself. In the end I am a better rider and everyone did a great job of not making me fell out of place. It is best that you guys let people ride in the group where they are comfortable. Let the individuals decide.

As to your belief that TSBA should be not here as a training school, I would disagree. The best way to grow and to be a mentor for newcomers. Set the example and give advice. Be honest and open. If someone comes to ride with you and you see they are lacking skills to ride safely with the group, be honest with them and suggest some more practice on their own. One of the things that impressed me most on my first SMR was Chris coming down the line telling everyone what to expect of the rode ahead and then setting an example. Riding with Chris set me more at ease and let me concentrate on riding because you know he is responsible and looking out for everyone's well being. Chris never failed to point out a danger to the riders behind him. I was even impressed by the signals he made as a reminder to check cross streets as we went along. These things can be read in a book but only when you see these practices being used do you start to practice them yourself.

The Big Spank Daddy
August 26th, 2002, 01:01 PM
When we headed out 290 they were just as goofy. I was keeping up with traffic at 80 to 85 but they took off doing 90+ weaving in and out of traffic. I just let them go and maintained my own pace.

I was once a newbie out for my first ride and I was a bit over whelmed by the full leathers and all, and the need to "keep up". Since getting to know everyone I soon realized that the SMR is not about "keeping up". It's the friendly relationships you build upon with fellow bikers with similar intrest.

May I say to everyone that anytime we have along some one new that we asign them a "riding buddy"? Say some one who knows the route and can fully explain to them the need to ride "smart" not fast. I for one have no desire to "keep up" and feel totaly comfortable bringing up the rear. The fact that I'm on probation for the next 90 days while you guys play bandit certainly helps. So I guess I'm volunteering to be sweeper since Wrong Way Bain needs to ride mid pack for tanker and mobile shop reasons.

Looking back to our last adventure, I was not totaly sure which way we were going eventhough I had been that route before. I've been on several variations of that route over the past several months. Let's make it a point for the point guy to let the sweeper know exactly what the route is. Randy and I both have detailed maps with all the FM roads and when we are along it would be a good idea for at least the point guy and sweeper to go over the plan.

Our newbies this past ride? Well I just assumed they were experienced and familiar with this type of riding. I guess that's were I was wrong and should have have spoke up and asked. They talked like they had lots of experience but their riding proved otherwise. I suppose the bald, and I mean bald rear tire on the Magna should have been a tip but it went right over my head.

One other idea would be to check who has a cell phone and exchange numbers. That way if an incident comes up like this past Sunday we can just call and see what the hold up is without the need to double back. I always have mine with me.

Louis Reinartz
August 26th, 2002, 01:08 PM
Glad to see the comments,this is YOUR club and as such these issues and concerns come up from time to time.
I think we should "stick to our guns" and require the gear,tires and other things to make a safe ride for all. I have been known to hurt peoples feelings from time to time due to me being a little to direct,perhaps someone with more tact than I have could or should take on this role...any volunteers? I have no problem in asking people to check back next time,I welcome new riders. We go thru these growing pains from time to time and I for one am very happy to see this response from the group.
Safety first,have fun and finish together.
having said all that,I want to say again,glad to see these types of comments coming from the riders,this is your club,lets keep the standards in place and know when to ask someone to check it out next time...and bring you rsafety gear!

The Big Spank Daddy
August 26th, 2002, 01:19 PM
Hey Gary, thanks for the kind words. Your experience the first time out was very similar to Jeff's and myself. I tend to agree with Gary about the training thing. I've learned so much on the SMRs and it has truly made me a better everyday rider.

I agree that we should reguire minimum riding gear and point out any basic safety problems such as bald tires. Cindy and I were skeptical about not wearing our gear (jackets) this past ride and I felt very uncomfortable without it. That won't happen again.

Missed you lately Gary and was wondering were you went. Look forward to riding with you again.

htown svs
August 26th, 2002, 01:48 PM
I've been busy with family commitments the past few weeks but I am looking forward to this weekend. I don't feel comfortable racing but I am seriously thinking about heading out to TWS this weekend to meet some of the guys and see what it's all about. Oh, and I also heard something about free BBQ. I am looking to ride Sat. and Sun. since the BBQ is Mon.(I think that's what I read?)

The Big Spank Daddy
August 26th, 2002, 01:51 PM
Uh, maybe we can get Louis to post one more time about the BBQ. I believe it is going to be after the endurance race on Saturday the 7th? This weekend is a track day. Can you clear that up Louis?

htown svs
August 26th, 2002, 02:29 PM
Oops. Everything is a blur. Where am I? What time is it? You're right. I am totally confused.

August 26th, 2002, 02:41 PM
One thing - no gear no ride. That's one of the club rules. Another - no squidly behavior especially from newbies. As for learning to ride - I'm mixed on that. I didn't come out on a group ride until I was somewhat comfortable with my riding. I would say that if you just bought the bike an are just learning to ride, you should stay away from SMRs. Get little experience first by riding alone or with another person, then come out on the rides.

Louis Reinartz
August 26th, 2002, 02:47 PM
The BBQ is AFTER the endurance race,( se related post..ie. corner workers needed get paid $$$)This weekend or Labor day it is Monday is a track day NOT A RACE it is a open track day with rider training from Your Learning Curve, the cost is $100 for TSBA guys with private garage.Sign up check it out or...come see it and do 1 next time.

August 26th, 2002, 03:21 PM
I'm with what Oskar said. To add to that we aren't a riders school which is why I always point people to Code or MSF. You really need to know the basics about counter steering, avoiding survival reactions, and throttle control to go sport riding on twisty roads safely. Dealing with newbies can be a little spooky since you never know what kind of skills they possess and statistics show they are the ones most likely to crash, due to lack of the skills mentioned above. What they need to keep in mind is that they are responsible for their own well being since they are the one in control of their bike. Is it worth crashing your bike and hurting yourself in order to keep up with others on a road you've never been on before? Just take it easy at first, learn the roads, and get used to cornering (something you don't get to practice much in town). Instead of having a slow group and a fast group we should work with the new riders to get them up to speed safely. However if we had like 20+ people showing up for rides then we might need to break the group up to keep it controlled.

August 26th, 2002, 03:41 PM
Like this weekend when we came to the gravel road and waited a while I think it was like 6 or 7 minutes. (We had no idea that your air box was fouling up)

I wonder if radios are in order. I dislike the idea of someone chattering in my ear while I ride. Stoops thinks they are very helpful on group rides. And if Gary thinks they are good, well maybe we should drop the whole idea. smile.gif

to be strictly accurate, the delay at the gravel road was clearly enhanced by "wrong-way" bain's uncanny sense of direction.

I was going the right direction. EVERYONE else was wrong. My bad I misunderstood the route.

the delay at independence was a result of the bmw self-disassembling throttle body feature...

:rolleyes: What can I say? Those Germans are still pissed about loosing two (count 'em) world wars.

blk O11k
August 26th, 2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Oskar_Z28:
Get little experience first by riding alone or with another person, then come out on the rides.riding alone when you don't know how to ride very well is the worst thing to do. What happens if you wreck? no one to help.
it goes with out saying, that we will offer advice if they could us it. That isn't really an issue.
there shouldn't be any pressure with riding skills. Maybe we should announce *ride at your own pace and it won't be a problem* at the meetings. I din't feel any pressure when I first came out. I've only been on about 3 or 4 rides with you guys.

[ August 26, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: blk O11k ]

August 26th, 2002, 04:37 PM
Ok, here are the guidelines from the site: (some paraphrasing)

Riders are encouraged to take the MSF courses.

Riders are encouraged to own and use the proper safety gear.

Never cross the center line!!! Treat the centerline as the edge of the road.

Yield to faster riders.

No passing in curves! No passing on the right.

Ride the Pace.

Always ride with reserve skill.

Now lets define some terms:
What is deemed Ďproper safety gear?í

My thinking is minimal gear includes:
Long pants
solid shoes

What about bike condition?
Tech inspection is not necessary but what if you see a tire that looks like a slick?
Minimal standards:
Tread above the wear bar in the center of the tire. Many people ride take offs on the street. Probabaly safe enough for our riding.

Street legal (everything works, mirrors in place, registration and inspection up todate.

Nothing leaking profusly. Reasonable attempt at a muffler.

What is squidly behavior and when, if ever, it is appropriate?
OK, wheelies and stoppies are fun. But not in the middle of town.

August 26th, 2002, 04:37 PM
Having just learned to ride, I preferred riding by myself or with another person. Maybe riding by myself wasn't the brightest idea - so let's say ride with a buddy. Riding with big group is too much of a distraction and you don't really learn good skills - like being aware of what's going on around you. You just follow the group. When I joined the group the first weekend this year, I wasn't too thrilled with the ride that morning. So I rode alone couple more times, and came out again after few weeks. It felt a little better, but I still wasn't totally compfortable. I noticed that if I was alone/or with a buddy I would have seen few things that I missed on the group ride. For example, I completely misses where we were actually going. smile.gif . After a group ride I had no clue which roads we took. If I rode by myself I would definately know the way. This comes from personal experience and is not scientific fact.

[ August 26, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Oskar_Z28 ]

August 26th, 2002, 04:50 PM
I thought there was a min gear requirement. :confused: Yep, says so in the Houston chapter, SMR thingy. Wear Proper Safety gear.

"Appropriate safety gear includes at a minimum, a leather or similar protective jacket, full length pants, gloves, ankle high boots, and a full face helmet. Many TSBA members wear full race leathers on street rides, and yes, even in the summer months. Leather will save you!"

Just my opinion, but it's up to the ride leader to enforce the rules.

As far as newbie training, maybe it should be a orientation ride where they are assigned to some other rider and he watches them for squidly behaviour or dangerous riding. Is he parking it in the corners and then gunning down the straights, while hard not to do in this area, would be a sign that they need some discussion on "The Pace".

I will take my turn at watching the newbies when my probation is complete.


The Big Spank Daddy
August 26th, 2002, 04:51 PM
Gee, this whole issue is a bit tough. How does one decide if their skills are up to "our" level? I personally thought mine were up to par on my first ride but found out that they were not. Only after several rides at a pace a bit more spirited than what I ride to work, some reading and advice from fellow TSBA members did I come up to snuff. Can I keep up with the front of the group, sure if I realy wanted too, but I find the rear a bit more relaxing and more suited to my "Pace".

If anyone has a problem waiting on me, I have not heard it. Every one has been nothing but supportive and patient with Jeff and myself. I for one now feel like part of the group eventhough I've only been with the TSBA for several months. I have no problem repaying that support by playing sweeper and helping out any new guys/gals.

I do however, feel that after this past Sunday we need to definitly put a limit on the minimum amount of protection one wears when riding in our group. I think it should be left up to the more "seasoned" riders to point out any problems and everyone else should be supportive of their decission. Helmet, jacket, gloves, jeans, and boots should be the minimum.

The Big Spank Daddy
August 26th, 2002, 05:03 PM
And one more thing..........we should practice what we preach. Are we actively recruiting members? No. However we do want to spread the word about safe and fun sport bike riding. The only way to do that is to take on newbies with no bad habits taught to them by irresponsible stunters and speed freeks and instill in them our values. You never know, the next newbie coming up may be the next Collin Edwards.

August 26th, 2002, 05:50 PM
WARNING: Really, really long. Bored, out of work, too hot to go outside, yadda, yadda smile.gif

Originally posted by Randy Bain:
And if Gary thinks they are good, well maybe we should drop the whole idea. smile.gif I HEARD THAT!!! :D

I used to think the same thing about using radio's while riding. My opinion has changed completely though after we have implemented they're use in our group. They have helped out, but not all the time. The group can get split to the point that the FRS Chatterboxes we use get out of range. None the less, they have helped, and it's not like you have conversations going on while shredding down the road.

As for other issue's you guys are talking about I can offer some advice as to what has worked for us.

1. You make everyone responsible for the themselves and the rider right behind them. You know if your the last guy. When you come to a turn the guy in front of you should be there to let you know which way to go. If no one is there then the route goes straight. You wait for the guy behind you to let them know which way to go, and so on. Every now and then (about every other turn for us) you HAVE to let the whole group bunch to make sure you aren't leaving someone 5 miles back. (with the Chatterboxes, on smaller rides sometimes we can go a long long ways without having to stop and bunch up)

2. Riding gear: It's required, but if someone has never ridden with us before then he may be allowed to ride with us this time. If he's in shorts, or no helmet then no, sorry. Can't ride this time but please come back with it, stress it's for his own good and ours. I had a new rider a couple weeks ago in tennis shoes. Had all the other gear, JR Phoenix, helmet, gloves. After talking a bit with him and looking his bike over (tires) I determined he wasn't going to be a problem. He rode a new Buell XB9 and shredded along right behind me. A very good rider that I immediately felst comfortable with. If he continues to show with tennis shoes then it may be approached with a comment on how boots, or even high tops, will save a delicate part of the body, foot and ankle, from serious damage in even a minor get off. And that it is part of requirements for our rides. Frankly, I don't want to run him off if he chooses to wear the shoes though, he's they type of rider we look to draw in Vs. the brand new rider.

Also you can tell these folks that ride only in T-shirts (listening Chris? smile.gif ) that even though you think you feel more comfortable, in the long run it's better for your body to wear the jacket. Your body temp will actually stay lower with a jacket on than if you don't wear one. It's called evaporative cooling. Not to mention you will dehydrate a lot faster without that jacket which can lead to headaches and / or heat exhaustion. You can loose concentration and we don't need that on bikes.

3. New rider's: Anyone that comes out to ride with us that has been invited by a member, that member is responsible for them on the ride.

We always "interview" new riders. Actually interrogate might be more like it. You have to be nice and tactful about it, so don't let Louis do it. smile.gif (just kidding dude)

A) What kind of riding experience?
B) How long have you been riding?
C) What kind of bikes?
D) What kind or riding do you want to do?
E) I also stress that no matter how good they may be, most of those he is now riding with know the roads like the back of their hand which gives us a major advantage. Knowing the roads is a major plus

Things like that. I stress a couple of the ride guidelines like no passing in corners, ride your own ride, if you scare yourself just once then your probably in over your head and need to slow down. Look at the bike and see what kind of shape it's in. Then explain how the group rides and works, and that everything is done to see that no one gets left behind. Sounds like you all are doing a great job in that respect.

Stress that no one needs to keep up (which you guys are obviously doing). I tell new guys that I have racer's that are knee draggers and name takers, and we have those that just putt along at the back of the pack. No one here cares how fast you can go so you won't impress anyone, and this isn't a competition.

Usually those of us that are experienced at putting on these rides this can pick out whom may and may not be a problem. To me, you have to weigh it each time. I usually tell everyone that is new to riding with us that someone more experienced in the group might be tagging along with them to see how they ride (of course if he is an invited guest by a member then it's that member as he is responsible for them). It's not to be taken personal, it's to ensure they are OK and therefore having a good time.

Most of the time this is the sweeper and depending on circumstances HAS to be one of the more experienced riders in the group. This means your ride may be somewhat sacrificed for some of that day, but if this position is traded off during the ride it's not so bad and it's for the good of the group. This may happen on rides that you have several new riders that may need to be watched. It doesn't have to be every ride. Besides, sounds like Chris and Randy are either experienced enough, or getting enough experience to play this role and they don't mind riding the slower pace.

And you can't be afraid to say something to anyone new that is acting up. It's best to be as political as possible. Get with some senior members of the group to discuss it and how to approach. This isn't easy no matter how you try and handle it. Any time we've had to handle something like that you run the risk of the rider not coming back, which can be a good thing sometimes. But I have had rider's come back, and they improved a bunch and still ride with us. That is a great feeling guys! Anytime you take someone exhibiting bad behavior and get them to change it and then improve it's great.

As for new riders? If someone comes to me and has only been riding a short time and hasn't even taken the basic MSF course....I get a bad feeling in my stomach. I don't want to tell them they can't ride with us, but I stress the kind of riding we do. Not to keep up. We know the roads. I'm going to have someone watching you, and if there are any problem signs exhibited we are going to talk to you about them. It's for your own good and ours also. I'm not sure you can tell someone they can't ride with us based on being new. Maybe try a bit of discouragement.

We had a guy, Chris Chadwell (friend of Oskar's actually), come to one of our rides. He's young, like 23. On a brand new R6 with paper plates. I've got all our experienced fast guys in the group this particular day.

I ask him "How long you had the bike?"

"Oh, about 5 days" he says.

"Really? How long you been riding?"

"Oh, about 5 days"

Oh, sheeeiit!! An R6......5 days.....young know it all punk (just kidding, that wasn't really my impression of Chris). I'm lookin around at the knee draggers I have with the group and am hoping there are cell phones with us today!

Turns out the guy has a natural ability, listens, has more sense than most 23 year olds and is now shredding along with the best of us. So how can you say no to a new rider? I think you just have to bear with them, and if the group is not for them they will figure it out. Hopefully before anyone gets hurt.

As for us being a training group, no. Stay away from that because TSBA is not a teaching group. Liability reasons. In fact I stress to new riders that in the end, everyone is responsible for themselves. It should be outlined that there are very experienced, to very little experienced riders in the group. It's up to each individual to maintain their own ride (no one gets left behind, while there is a natural feeling of wanting to keep the group in sight this can lead to trouble, yadda, yadda).

While we aren't a teaching group, we are happy to give out individual advice. I tell them that if they feel they are doing something wrong to ask someone to ride with them and maybe give pointer's. That's individual advice, it's not a group teaching effort. Those that are the more experienced can talk with new riders and stress the basics of sight picture, counter steering, entrance speeds, etc and see how they take to it. I've had a couple new riders not come back after trying to talk with them as they knew it all and didn't need to hear it, this all after being left way behind. Those riders you don't really need riding with you.

I stress track days for the real teaching. I think we all know more can be learned about your limits, and your bikes potential in one track day than in several SMR's.

Well, actually think I ran out of things to say......for NOW!! :D Other than to say it's good that you have this type of discusion and it sounds like you guys have more than a handle on any problems that may arise.

August 26th, 2002, 06:20 PM
Gary its a shame you only got credit for one post on that one. :D

The Big Spank Daddy
August 26th, 2002, 07:51 PM
"Also you can tell these folks that ride only in T-shirts (listening Chris? ) that even though you think you feel more comfortable, in the long run it's better for your body to wear the jacket."

As stated before it was a bad call on my part and I appreciate the peer presure. I spoke to Cindy tonight about her jacket situation and being the man of the house and the one who wears the pants, if ya'll believe that, told her regardless if she liked it or not she was at least getting a JR Phoenix jacket this weekend.

And again this is why I like this group because they stress safe riding and apply an even and fair hand when it comes to suggestions and pressure to do the right thing.

August 26th, 2002, 09:42 PM
I fully agree with all those calling for quality riding gear on your SMRs. I am originally from Scotland and have never ridden without some kind of leather skin on and it makes me nervous to ride without one here.

In fact, I have been hoping to join one of your rides for a few weeks now but I just can't handle the heat with my leathers on so I am having to wait for cooler times. My brand new bike is 2 months old and has done only 600 miles! (don't worry, I'm not completely green - it's the latest in a string of bikes)

Anyway, one day soon I'll give it a try and will definitely be suited up.

August 27th, 2002, 03:31 PM
I am originally from Scotland and have never


I just can't handle the heat with my leathers on so I am having to wait for cooler times. My brand new bike is 2 months old and has done only 600 miles!

Another Scot? Geez is anyone left over there? smile.gif

We look forward to having you on a ride Mark. Its best not to get out in the heat if you are not used to it. Heat exhaustion is an ugly thing.

Now in an effort to further relations with our brothers across the pond I would be happy to put some miles on the bike for you.

August 27th, 2002, 03:34 PM
One Scottish owned bike isn't enough for you, Randy? Let's get that one fixed, and we can ride it and keep the relations on the positive side.

August 27th, 2002, 08:16 PM
Thanks but I put many miles on it every night in bed when I'm dreaming! Most of them are on those windy, cop-free, cool Scottish roads. I'm sure your Scots buddy has told you all about them.

I'll be seeing you all sometime soon hopefully.