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Thread: Did anybody see this on the news tonight?

  1. #51
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    The passenger on the bike had NO choice in the guy running for the cops. Now because of the cops BAD decision to ram the bike the INNOCENT person on the back of the bike is now seriously injured. The cop KNEW then when he hit that bike he would most definitely be injuring an innocent.

    When you see a cop chasing a car down the highway and you see them take out the car using the box maneuver, spike strips, etc. I'd be willing to bet that they have made sure that there is noone else in the vehicle that isn't a victim or not involved in whatever crime there running for BEFORE taking the action of disabling the vehicle. Also probably have tried to clear the streets before doing said actions. All in an effort to minimize innocents risk of being injured.

    This cop did something that he know almost 100% would injure an innocent. For that, in my opinion, he should be thrown to the wolves.
    Richard

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvia View Post
    We all like hypotheticals, how about this one. The biker runs from the cops and hits a mother pushing her daughter in a stroller through an intersection. Mother and daughter dies. Do we still blame the cops for "profiling"?
    In that case, the biker would be charged with 2 counts of involuntary manslaughter unless he was gunning for them in which case it's 2 counts of voluntary manslaughter. And if the cop then chose to use his car as a weapon in the heat of the moment after seeing the biker run over the mother and daughter and the biker dies as a result, then the cop should be charged with voluntary manslaughter.

    Let's take a more straightforward example of a person who shoots the mother and daughter and runs away from the cops without confronting them. Even if the person doesn't drop their weapon, the cops don't just open fire at the guy as he's running away without being in danger themselves. Until the guy actually presents a threat to the officers or someone at the scene (not some hypothetical, if someone got in his way, but some in-the-flesh person) no LETHAL force can be used. They chase him down and use lethal force, if he's about to threaten some bystander in the area or the officers themselves; otherwise, he drops the gun and they arrest him.

    Repeat after me, it's better to err on the side of the criminal. And it's certainly beats the guilty until proven innocent approach. Or, as it was in the Soviet Union, guilty until dead from a bullet in the head after a walk in the woods approach. Fortunately, such cases are rare and probably don't even warrant such a long post, but I felt it tactically advantageous to overwhelm Bill through sheer number of words. Are you tired of reading yet? Give up?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=sean)=- View Post
    but I felt it tactically advantageous to overwhelm Bill through sheer number of words. Are you tired of reading yet? Give up?
    I've got more hair than you...;-)>

    Bill
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  4. #54
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    Probably not on your Back, Bill!
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvia View Post
    The course of action STARTED by the biker who ran!

    Bill
    There would have been no action at all if there had been no bogus attempt at a stop.
    Albie



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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdugger View Post
    So you support profiling, but you would agree that *any* consolation to personal privacy and freedom is the slippery slope to no freedom at all?

    The quote I paraphrased is commonly, and incorrectly, attributed to Ben Franklin. It's intent, though, is to convey that the attitude "if you have nothing to hide, then what are you worried about" *is* the problem. It's the beginning of the end of 4th amendment rights.

    Don't give up your rights. If you do, you don't have them! I don't condone breaking the law or running from officers, but a healthy dose of skepticism for egrigious law enforcement does no harm, and is an important check and balance ensuring personal freedom in the future.
    You've mis-quoted me...I never said that I support profiling. Let me try it from a different angle...
    Yes the cop was wrong for profiling
    Yes the cop was wrong for ramming a bike (and should be charged with attempted murder)
    Yes I believe there are serious flaws in the system (even corrupt at times)
    BUT, it is impossible to fight the injustices of the system when you are DEAD. There are causes that are worth dying for...evading a ticket is not one of them.
    I can't be any more clear than that.
    And again, just my opinion...
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  7. #57
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    and there would be no bogus stop if there hadn't been profiling...and there wouldn't have been any profiling if bikers didn't run. Circular thinking.

    Answer me this, Albie. Do you feel the the rider bears NO personal responsibility in this matter? That his choice to run was nothing more than an act of his constitutional right as opposed to civil disobedience? That he was forced, by the bogus stop and or profiling to twist his wrist? That the ONLY person to blame in this incident was the LEO?

    Bill
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluRR View Post
    ...evading a ticket is not one of them.
    I can't be any more clear than that.
    And again, just my opinion...
    So you're saying the revolution has been called off?...;-)>

    Bill
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    The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted time on earth, the hours he spends riding a motorcycle.

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvia View Post
    The course of action STARTED by the biker who ran!

    Bill
    Quote Originally Posted by Hood Ornament View Post
    There would have been no action at all if there had been no bogus attempt at a stop.


    Y'all could go round and round in circles with this.

    If it would've been me being lit up, I would've pulled over and said, "why are you pulling me over?" At that point, he wouldn't have had anything to say, and therefore would have no right to do anything, and in court it could be argued that any ticket he would've given to be, like, inadmissible, or something. Am I wrong? That procedure thing is a beeatch for cops sometime.

    Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong: If a cop finds contraband in someone's car, in court, the lawyer will say, "what is the reason for pulling my client over?" If that reason is bogus, the whole case is bogus...

    Of course, by that point, the defendant has spent at least one night in the pokey, and coughed up a chunk of skrill to the mouthpiece, and that's no fun.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvia View Post
    and there would be no bogus stop if there hadn't been profiling...and there wouldn't have been any profiling if bikers didn't run. Circular thinking.

    Answer me this, Albie. Do you feel the the rider bears NO personal responsibility in this matter? That his choice to run was nothing more than an act of his constitutional right as opposed to civil disobedience? That he was forced, by the bogus stop and or profiling to twist his wrist? That the ONLY person to blame in this incident was the LEO?

    Bill
    +1

    That was my first thought when I saw the video... "Stupid azz squid"
    But sometimes the cops just need to let it go, and swallow their pride. Cop #2 knew that if he didn't get him right there at that intersection, he would have gotten away and he couldn't take that, so he made a desperate decision that was irresponsible, spiteful, stupid, even evil.
    He might as well have set up booby traps for the kid, like stringing piano wire across the highway.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluRR View Post
    You've mis-quoted me...I never said that I support profiling. Let me try it from a different angle...
    I defnitely did misread your post if this is your position.


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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRoach View Post

    Y'all could go round and round in circles with this.

    If it would've been me being lit up, I would've pulled over and said, "why are you pulling me over?" At that point, he wouldn't have had anything to say, and therefore would have no right to do anything, and in court it could be argued that any ticket he would've given to be, like, inadmissible, or something. Am I wrong? That procedure thing is a beeatch for cops sometime.

    Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong: If a cop finds contraband in someone's car, in court, the lawyer will say, "what is the reason for pulling my client over?" If that reason is bogus, the whole case is bogus...

    Of course, by that point, the defendant has spent at least one night in the pokey, and coughed up a chunk of skrill to the mouthpiece, and that's no fun.

    I don't agree with this because I have gotten the bogus ticket and lost it in court because the cop made up a lie. All because if there was no criminal action( worse than a triffic violation) the video tapes are always recorded over, such is policy in most police departments. The only reason we see this tape is because what became of the chase. Had he pulled over and gotten the ticket he would have been harrassed, gotten fined, and couldn't do a **** thing about it because there wouldn't even be video evidence to rule it out. Once again, this has happened to me.

    But should have ran, no. Would I have ran with a passenger on back, HELL NO. Would I have ran after a cop was sitting behind me at a light, Once again, HELL NO, he has all ready got my plates.

    The bogus ticket I got for 38 in a 30 in Frisco while I was doing 18 going into a school zone looking face to face with the cop is a perfect example. As he told me when I started to argue, "You can take it up with the Judge!" And all the judge does is find you guilty even if you have a lawyer requesting the recorded over video tape. Another one for your record that is a complete crock and the cops ego grows bigger because he made your life worse just for kicks.
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    "Intellectual Honesty is the most important form of Honesty because lying to others may be damaging, but lying to yourself is fatal!" Benjamin L Crain

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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRoach View Post
    If it would've been me being lit up, I would've pulled over and said, "why are you pulling me over?" At that point, he wouldn't have had anything to say, and therefore would have no right to do anything, and in court it could be argued that any ticket he would've given to be, like, inadmissible, or something. Am I wrong? That procedure thing is a beeatch for cops sometime.
    This is *exactly* what happened to me on FM917 a month ago.

    I pulled over. The cop couldn't find anything wrong with my paperwork and wrote me up for speeding, which I wasn't.

    I fought the ticket and the judge dismissed the case in exchange for $200 in court costs.

    Who won?

    I don't think the biker did the right thing by running, but I'm *highly* sympathetic because small town and surburban traffic cops are frequently just one step above crooks themselves.

    On the flip side, I had a Dallas cop stop by my shop yesterday and peer in because he heard packing tape, and because our power had been stolen (someone lifted the service wire between the pole and the building and I called it in) they have increased patrols in the area.

    After verifying that I was supposed to be in there by asking me to unlock the securty gate, he reminded me that my plates and inspection were one month over due on the truck, said "watch out for a trooper on that", and went about his patrol.

    I am *yet* to have an unpleasant experience with a Dallas cop. I know it happens, but compared to Carrollton, Richardson and the small towns we go through on SMRs, it's like apples and oranges comparing Dallas to everywhere else.


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  14. #64
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    Dangit Albie, you went and took this topic way off topic...............lets get back to the hair war between Seanzie and Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by YZF Cathy View Post
    Dangit Albie, you went and took this topic way off topic...............lets get back to the hair war between Seanzie and Bill
    To quote Jim, it's a an apples to oranges comparison: wavy, flowy hair vs old man, frizzy, ratty hair.

  16. #66
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    You're not that old...;-)>

    Bill
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=sean)=- View Post
    To quote Jim, it's a an apples to oranges comparison: wavy, flowy hair vs old man, frizzy, ratty hair.
    ok... but which is which?
    Mitch

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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roseknight View Post
    ok... but which is which?
    Bah!

    Prirate Translation: Arrrrrggh!

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvia View Post
    and there would be no bogus stop if there hadn't been profiling...and there wouldn't have been any profiling if bikers didn't run. Circular thinking.

    Answer me this, Albie. Do you feel the the rider bears NO personal responsibility in this matter? That his choice to run was nothing more than an act of his constitutional right as opposed to civil disobedience? That he was forced, by the bogus stop and or profiling to twist his wrist? That the ONLY person to blame in this incident was the LEO?

    Bill
    Yes, the rider shares responsibility and should be charged with evading.
    Now answer me this, if the cop performed his job according to the law, would we even be having this conversation? The only one not at blame in this situation is the passenger.
    Albie



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  20. #70
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    What is the law in this case?

    Bill
    Bill "as mentioned in the DMN!"

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    The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted time on earth, the hours he spends riding a motorcycle.

    "...compared to two GSXR guys, where one stands up, yells "yee-haw!", and tosses the other guy into a tree." Rob

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvia View Post
    What is the law in this case?

    Bill

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    "Intellectual Honesty is the most important form of Honesty because lying to others may be damaging, but lying to yourself is fatal!" Benjamin L Crain

    I LOVE THE SMELL OF RACE FUEL IN THE MORNING, SMELLS LIKE VICTORY!

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashCrain View Post
    Thou Shall Not Discuss Shaving Gonad Hair on somebody elses Post!
    Should I start a separate thread?

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood Ornament View Post
    Now answer me this, if the cop performed his job according to the law, would we even be having this conversation?
    Quote Originally Posted by bvia View Post
    What is the law in this case?
    Spot checks are legal. Though, I believe all credential info an officer might need these days are available through their laptop with just a plate number.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvia View Post
    ...and there are times where prejudice is perfectly acceptable (think convicted child sex offenders, murders, rapists, etc). Fighting "predjudice" was NOT the reason this incident happened, but it sure as hell might be the genesis for the next one.

    There's always a little bit of truth in a stereotype and this person choice to run bore this out...

    Bill

    p.s. Rosa Parks was FORCED by unjust laws to "sit in the back"...this biker CHOSE to run and perpetuates the stereotype. BIG difference IMHO.
    Bill,

    Prejudice is only acceptable when ignorance is present. And the law she broke wasn't just for sitting in the back of the bus, you gotta be kidding me, right? That was just a spark to light the fire of much larger problems.

    My history prof. who has an incredible level of erudition in southern history explained it best. "Prejudice/discrimination isn't what you've read in the text books. It isn't somebody not getting to eat in a certain spot, pee in a certain restroom. Prejudice is a bus full of young adults for a school athletic team going up through Georgia. Along the way they got into a head on collision with a family traveling the opposite way. Here's where it gets weird. The single family was white, the bus was full of african americans. The county hospital sent the ambulence to pick up the white family and take them to the local hospital. Meanwhile, the black kids had to wait for a hearse to come from another city hours away. This is a hearse mind you. Can you imagine how demoralizing that is to wait for hours for a hearse to pick you up? While waiting, one of the kids dies, along the ride back to the hospital several more die." That is what standing in the bus represented, not just some trivial law, but all of the other more heinous unpublicized acts.

    If somebody is mistreated because they ride a bike through a certain area, has their bike impounded, is beaten because they look like a certain biker, that is unacceptable. I'm amazed that some people have the mentality that some good can be born of evil, that profiling, randomly pulling over people is actually a service. I completely disagree with that. The only apathetic people that agree with that are ones that have never been inconvenienced sufficiently to warrant a broader investigation of their beliefs or believe that a certain amount of social injustices are required to keep the hellions at bay. Such myopia never ceases to amaze me and I'm further astounded that such people can find their way out the front door of their own home.

    The biker responded irrationally to an irrational officer. I don't think you can completely blame the biker for failing to remain level headed when somebody whose job is to do just that abuses his authority.

    Ethan

  25. #75
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    This is not the first time Police have used this tactic. Not going to be the last. This happens all over the US everyday. I'm sure the DA will nitpick the Dept. Policy and Procedure during Chases ect. Maybe the Cop will lose his career and find another job working in some other county for Law Enforcement. Did you know that most agencies won't bother looking up these Officers files when they hire them. I'm sure the city will have to pay for this cops mistake. CIVIL suit will run it's course and possible charges against the officer hitting the biker. Just remember that what goes around comes right back around in the azz!
    Schreck

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