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Thread: Uh Oh, I have that tingling feeling

  1. #1
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    Default Uh Oh, I have that tingling feeling

    Greg T.
    \'01 RC51, RIP \ '06 KX450F \ '06 CBR1000RR \ '07 ST1300

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    When's the last time you've ridden on the dirt? Go get yourself a track bike!

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    Quote Originally Posted by -=sean)=- View Post
    When's the last time you've ridden on the dirt? Go get yourself a track bike!
    Hush, Can't I have both?
    Greg T.
    \'01 RC51, RIP \ '06 KX450F \ '06 CBR1000RR \ '07 ST1300

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    LOL I'm looking to make one of THOSE my track bike!
    Albie



    Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

    Dallas chapter VP
    You can e-mail me at albie1 at gmail dot com

  5. #5
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    Just looking at past posts, I'm assuming you ride more offroad than MX? If that's the case, buy an off-road bike instead, it's a much better tool for the job. I used to mod MX bikes for hare scrambles, but having seen the light, it's nice to have a bike that works better off the showroom floor than a highly modded (and pricey) MX bike.

    If you have a thing for green bikes (I'll spare you the KTM spiel), the KLX 450 R gets great reviews, and will prob. have many of the same enhancements for '09.
    Chris
    '07 KTM Super Duke 990 (FOR SALE)
    '07 KTM 300 XC-W

  6. #6
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    I prefer 2 strokes myself for wood bikes. I love my KX 250 for it's light weight, ease of starting, and cheap maintenance. Not to mention it never overheats like every 4 stroke I've had/have even in the dead of summer. Sure, it had to have a little work done to it to make it a good woods bike, but it wasn't that big a deal. That being said, I'd probably get the KTM 300 XC-W if I was going to go out and buy a new bike today.
    Albie



    Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

    Dallas chapter VP
    You can e-mail me at albie1 at gmail dot com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood Ornament View Post
    I'd probably get the KTM 300 XC-W if I was going to go out and buy a new bike today.
    I couldn't recommend the 300 XC-W high enough. For anybody who knows my bike purchase history, it's unusual for me to ride a non-current model year dirt bike. E-start on the new ones would be nice, but my 300 doesn't really leave much to be desired in the way of improvements, and it is pretty darn close to stock!

    Since I got it, the 450 gets maybe 15-20% of my dirt seat time, and it's a great bike as well...just a lot heavier, less agile, and more prone to stalling than the 300. Oh yeah, it also requires a lot more maintenance time for any given amount of riding.
    Chris
    '07 KTM Super Duke 990 (FOR SALE)
    '07 KTM 300 XC-W

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    Uh Oh, I have that tingling feeling

    It's a cold sore. Get out the Abreva or Releev

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    Campho-Phenique will help with that ;-)>
    Bill "as mentioned in the DMN!"

    '07 GSX-R 750

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    The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted time on earth, the hours he spends riding a motorcycle.

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    Guys,
    Could you all elaborate? This thread interests me a lot. I have several questions (could ask a million).

    Why is a MX bike inappropriate for off road trail riding, other than engine durability and stuff like that? I understand that the MX bike engines are more stressed. What's the difference other than that? Is the trail bike actually easier to ride on trails in the "real world"?

    I have an Aprilia Tuono for my go fast bike and a F650GS for my commuter. I have been considering picking up something else that might be decent offroad and could do Motard as well. The BMW blows at both. It is good commuter, but that is about it. Was considering one of the LC4 KTMs as well as a Husky. I think I am on the right track there, but they are pricey and I would rather go Jap. What would be the Asian equivalent of a Husky or a KTM LC4? I would like similar quality. Would an XR650R that was plated come close?

    Plus, I want to be sure to buy the right size. I am a fairly new rider, so I do not want or need massive power. The Tuono is too much for me on the street at this stage of my riding development. Kinda wish I bought a small Monster or a VFR. Something with snap, but not brutal. Medium sized... Last thing I need is a KX450

    Would it be better to buy an trail bike and Motard it, or should I buy a Super Motard and offroad it? I do not understand the tradeoffs concerning each approach. Aren't they essentially the same? I guess if you offroad a SM, you buy a lot more plastic when you drop it...


    I want something fun to ride, but not so high strung as to be unreliable or in need of total rebuild in order to do both good trails as well as good Motard.

    Any advice for an ignorant one?

    Thanks.
    Ken Smith
    Sugar Land, TX

    2006 BMW F650GS (which after farkling, cost as much as the Ape... )
    2007 Aprilia Tuono R (with goodies though... It's almost a Factory...)
    [SIGPIC]http://gahboo.smugmug.com/gallery/4209540#246074702[/SIGPIC]

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    Ken, I wouldn't go so far as to say a MX bike is inappropriate for off-road, just not the best tool for the job. I've successfully hare scrambled MX bikes , as have many others, but it took more time and money to get there.

    What does an off-road specific bike give you over a MX bike?
    - wide range gearing, usually a lower first and a taller 5th/6th to cover a wider range of conditions
    - bigger flywheel weight for better traction and less jerky power delivery (not as tiring to ride)
    - no tool air filter access in many cases
    - estart in almost all 4 strokes and many new KTM 2 strokes. You'd appreciate it on a thumper if you've ever dumped a hot one upside down and need to restart on the side of a hill (esp. w/ the left side facing downhill)
    - softer suspension valving designed for typical terrain vs. big doubles and triples
    - bigger tanks, w/ reserve
    - 18" (vs. 19") wheel for more compliance and fewer pinch flats
    - O-ring chain

    More later, off to work....
    Chris
    '07 KTM Super Duke 990 (FOR SALE)
    '07 KTM 300 XC-W

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    First off, the main problem with a MX bike on trails is the way they deliver power. The MX bikes are much peakier and meant to be ridden high in the revs. On trails you need more manageable power, even power. Flywheel weights help compensate for that. The next issue is teh trannys. MX bikes have very close ratrio trannys, once again, to keep the bike in the higer revs and maintain that peak HP. Next is the suspensions. I don't think there's any great mystery there, MX bikes are set up with thoise big jumps in mind. On the trails you need a much plusher suspension to maintain control.

    For off road riding, the lighter you can go the better it is. Now if you want a bike that will do double duty you're gonna have to make sacrifices. The Husky 610 and the KTM 690 are great bikes but they, along with the XRR are HEAVY! They will wear you out quickly in tough single track. All 3 work really well on road and make good motards. The other alternative is the Husky450/510 the KTM 450/530. These are full on enduro race bikes that are street legal. They have high maintenance intervals (almost as high as MX bikes), they are fantastic off road and tolerable on road. In Sumo form they work great but keep in mind, you start piling on the mileage they are gonna be expensive to maintain. The Japanese don't really offer a counter part to these bikes. But living in TX it's easy enough to plate the WR 450 or the KLX 450. Of course the same maintenance intervals apply as the KTM and Husky. The odd ball out is the Suzuki DRZ400 S and SM. It's a bike that has maintenance intervals like the bigger Euro bikes. The down side is it's weak on power, has mediocre suspension bits, and it's as heavy as the big Euro bikes.

    As for which to buy, the SM or the dirt bike. The SM usually is the cheaper route to go because the dirt bike wheels are hella cheaper to buy later. Not sure why you would think crashing a SM would cost more to fix then a dirt bike. There's no difference in the parts aside from the wheels, brakes and suspension bits. The problem is there aren't that many SM bikes off the shelf. Just the Husky's,the DRZ, and the new Yamaha WR250X. KTM only makes the 690's in SM form any more.
    Albie



    Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

    Dallas chapter VP
    You can e-mail me at albie1 at gmail dot com

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    Don't many (or most) factory SM's have shorter suspension travel w/ diff. valving? Wouldn't be ideal offroad...
    Chris
    '07 KTM Super Duke 990 (FOR SALE)
    '07 KTM 300 XC-W

  14. #14
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    Default Thanks so much!

    I feel like I hit the mother lode on those posts. More information in those paragraphs than I was able to piece together in hours on KTMTalk and ADV, so thanks a ton guys. Those things are exactly what I wanted to know. The comments about power delivery are particularly valuable. I bought the Ape because I liked the V Twin torque and linear power delivery. I rode an R6 and did not like the peakiness of that bike at all. It scared me, even though the Ape has lots more pure power. (Of course I know it is probably because of my nOOb-ness)

    I know the Husky 610 is heavy compared to a MX machine. But not compared to a BMW F650GS! So, it ought to be a real improvement for me on the trails.

    I was actually thinking about trying to find an older, original Duke. They can be had pretty cheap. I love the looks of the things.

    Thanks again!
    Ken Smith
    Sugar Land, TX

    2006 BMW F650GS (which after farkling, cost as much as the Ape... )
    2007 Aprilia Tuono R (with goodies though... It's almost a Factory...)
    [SIGPIC]http://gahboo.smugmug.com/gallery/4209540#246074702[/SIGPIC]

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    Both Chris and Albie said it all pretty well.

    If you are going to start riding trails then a 250 four stroke would be a good one to learn on. These bikes have good linear power unlike many two strokes. It really depends on how much money you want to spend on your first bike. KTM offers really good two and four strokes but if your not sure then a used/less expensive bike would be a good first choice.

    Either a 250 that is trail specific or an MX that someone has already spent money on setting suspension and gearing. Trust me, electric start can be a very nice thing and four strokes may have nice linear power but don't like mid summer heat after dumping them.

    XR650 that you mentioned is a good bike but you will hate the weight while trying to learn to ride trails. read, DEEP SAND.
    Greg T.
    \'01 RC51, RIP \ '06 KX450F \ '06 CBR1000RR \ '07 ST1300

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    Haven't had my KX450F on the trails yet as I prefer the track, but I am rebuilding a Yamaha YZ250F and I'll likely set it up more for trail use. Lot of the guys I ride with head out to the forest on a regular basis and they've been bugging me to join in. Not sure I'll enjoy trail riding, but the overnight camp out beer drinking looks like fun.

    I hope those black side panels on the 09 KX250F will fit my 450. Those look nice!
    Keith Foster
    2006 Red/Black Suzuki Hayabusa - 2006 Silver Kawasaki Ninja 650R - 2007 Team Green Kawaski KX450F


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    Yea, not only does the fuel injection sound cool, they look pretty nice too.

    I don't have too much experience on the track to comment, but I really enjoy trail riding...not having to worry about coming up short on a jump.

    My KX450 has only had the front forks revalved and two teeth up on the rear sprocket. It is tons of fun on trails with wheelies out of every turn.

    90deg plus heat is no fun though.
    Greg T.
    \'01 RC51, RIP \ '06 KX450F \ '06 CBR1000RR \ '07 ST1300

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg T. View Post
    ...not having to worry about coming up short on a jump.
    As slow as I ride that hasn't been an issue.

    Actually, got the guts to go for some air the last ride out. There's a good beginners table top at the track in Needville. Not too steep, not too long, good entry and exit - perfect for learning to jump. Hit it pretty hard several times and enjoyed the heck out of it!
    Keith Foster
    2006 Red/Black Suzuki Hayabusa - 2006 Silver Kawasaki Ninja 650R - 2007 Team Green Kawaski KX450F


  19. #19
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    Well, just got a response from the dealer I bought my KTM's and last R1 from. They said they'll order the new 450F in mid July. Hasn't given me a price quote yet, but I imagine he'll be a lot better then any of the dealers around here. Hopefully I can get the motard stuff for it quickly.
    Albie



    Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

    Dallas chapter VP
    You can e-mail me at albie1 at gmail dot com

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood Ornament View Post
    Well, just got a response from the dealer I bought my KTM's and last R1 from. They said they'll order the new 450F in mid July. Hasn't given me a price quote yet, but I imagine he'll be a lot better then any of the dealers around here. Hopefully I can get the motard stuff for it quickly.
    You trully are a motardin fool!. I have spare room in the garage if you are in need.
    Greg T.
    \'01 RC51, RIP \ '06 KX450F \ '06 CBR1000RR \ '07 ST1300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg T. View Post

    90deg plus heat is no fun though.
    This is the third reference to four strokes and "the heat problem". I do not understand this well, please elaborate if you will. My 4 stroke BMW thumper has no overheating issues, but then it has almost 3 liters of oil and an oil cooler in it too.

    Is that what you guys are referring to? I know the trail bikes have much less oil capacity. I also infer a restarting problem with the 4 strokes when hot. Am I right about that? What's with the heat issue?

    On the 4 stroke vs 2 stroke idea and learning to ride trails, I guess the recommendation of a "4 stroke 250" meant something like a WR250, or the KLX 250, right?

    Maybe I ought to just give up the idea of one bike doing motard and trails both on one bike and get something closer matched to each use. That sort of utilitarian thinking is what lead me to owning a 400 pound pig with a 45 HP engine (the BMW) in the first place. So, maybe I just start using the Tuono as my commuter and go with a pure trail bike and give up the SM idea. It is not like the Tuono sucks in twisties, you know.

    As always, thanks for humoring one who knows little.
    Ken Smith
    Sugar Land, TX

    2006 BMW F650GS (which after farkling, cost as much as the Ape... )
    2007 Aprilia Tuono R (with goodies though... It's almost a Factory...)
    [SIGPIC]http://gahboo.smugmug.com/gallery/4209540#246074702[/SIGPIC]

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    Ken, What is meant by the 4 stroke hot start issue is mainly referring to kick start models. When you are hot and tired and the bike is hot and tired it usually is more difficult to start. When a tip over occurs it usually floods an engine, the problem is worse when hot. may be a form of vapor locking with the heat.With e-start/and good battery, no problem. 2 strokes are wonderful one kick starters/provided jetted properly.

    The lead story in this thread was referring to fuel injection and the ability to start with one kick according to the manufacturer. This is a big deal if James Stewart dumps the bike and needs to get up and on the move again. It's a big deal to me because I love my KX450f and if it would start easier without the extra weight of a battery and starter then that is all good.

    And yes, I am referring to a WR250 or CRF250X or any of the other 250 models be it MX or trail like the ones I listed.
    Greg T.
    \'01 RC51, RIP \ '06 KX450F \ '06 CBR1000RR \ '07 ST1300

  23. #23
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    Default OK, I got it now.

    Thanks for taking the time to educate me.

    I definitely know I want a bike with a, what do you call it, a "happy button", on it, I think. I never kick started anything in my life, and from what I read with some bikes that is kind of a black art sort of thing. You gotta do all sorts of stuff just right for that particular machine's personality to get it to start up. So whatever it is I get will have a starter just for convenience's sake.

    OK - thread hijacking is over now. Thanks for humoring me.
    Ken Smith
    Sugar Land, TX

    2006 BMW F650GS (which after farkling, cost as much as the Ape... )
    2007 Aprilia Tuono R (with goodies though... It's almost a Factory...)
    [SIGPIC]http://gahboo.smugmug.com/gallery/4209540#246074702[/SIGPIC]

  24. #24
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    Talking Tingling Feeling

    Greg, if you have a tingling feeling, I recommend penicillin to help stop that feeling.
    Ben G
    Dallas Secy & Tres
    "Giallo Duc"
    Quack Addict
    www.goodingcm.com
    Those are your balls. This is your brain. One will steer you into trouble. The other will steer you out of it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg T. View Post
    The lead story in this thread was referring to fuel injection and the ability to start with one kick according to the manufacturer. This is a big deal if James Stewart dumps the bike and needs to get up and on the move again. It's a big deal to me because I love my KX450f and if it would start easier without the extra weight of a battery and starter then that is all good.
    Greg, I think you and I read a different interpretation of Kawasaki's single kick starting claim. W/ the Suzuki RMZ450, you have to "pre kick" it just to charge the electrical system for the EFI, then you kick to start it as on a normal bike.

    I don't think Kawi is claiming it will start on the first kick, just that you don't have to charge the elec. system in advance like the RMZ requires.
    Chris
    '07 KTM Super Duke 990 (FOR SALE)
    '07 KTM 300 XC-W

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